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Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…

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Did Koby Altman nail the rebuild?


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Just a general thought here. Dan Gilbert has gotten a ton of crap for never committing to a GM until he finally granted an extension to Koby. I'm not trying to be a Dan apologist, as I know the man has certainly not been the perfect owner, but could it be fair to say that for the most part, he was right to let previous GMs go?

I actually liked Ferry, and was a little bummed to see him go. In particular, that one trade deadline that landed us Delonte West, Joe Smith and Ben Wallace was an incredible haul, given what he had to work with.

Grant was pretty damn good at bending desperate GMs over when it came to trades, but I'm sure that also made him not well-liked in the GM fraternity which may have come back to bite him in the ass if he was ever desperate to make a deal himself sometime in the future. I could have lived with that if his drafts weren't such horseshit.

And then we had Griffin, a likeable dude who will likely always bring back fond memories, but his ability to manage assets was piss fucking poor. He had some nice trades and generally had a good feel for the pulse of the locker room. We don't have much to evaluate his drafts off of because he handed out all of the picks he had like candy.

And now we have Koby. I don't think many of us would argue that he's been killing it, but I do feel that he has demonstrated a reasonable amount of competence across the board. I've been ok with his drafts, despite the questions about whether the pieces will fit. The Kyrie trade sucked, but his more recent trades have been pretty decent. The Love extension was a major fuckup, but I'm hoping he's learned since then not to hand out future-crippling contracts.

I think a reasonable argument could be made that of the previous GMs that Dan has plowed through, Koby may be the only one that actually deserved an extension.
 
Just a general thought here. Dan Gilbert has gotten a ton of crap for never committing to a GM until he finally granted an extension to Koby. I'm not trying to be a Dan apologist, as I know the man has certainly not been the perfect owner, but could it be fair to say that for the most part, he was right to let previous GMs go?

I actually liked Ferry, and was a little bummed to see him go. In particular, that one trade deadline that landed us Delonte West, Joe Smith and Ben Wallace was an incredible haul, given what he had to work with.

Grant was pretty damn good at bending desperate GMs over when it came to trades, but I'm sure that also made him not well-liked in the GM fraternity which may have come back to bite him in the ass if he was ever desperate to make a deal himself sometime in the future. I could have lived with that if his drafts weren't such horseshit.

And then we had Griffin, a likeable dude who will likely always bring back fond memories, but his ability to manage assets was piss fucking poor. He had some nice trades and generally had a good feel for the pulse of the locker room. We don't have much to evaluate his drafts off of because he handed out all of the picks he had like candy.

And now we have Koby. I don't think many of us would argue that he's been killing it, but I do feel that he has demonstrated a reasonable amount of competence across the board. I've been ok with his drafts, despite the questions about whether the pieces will fit. The Kyrie trade sucked, but his more recent trades have been pretty decent. The Love extension was a major fuckup, but I'm hoping he's learned since then not to hand out future-crippling contracts.

I think a reasonable argument could be made that of the previous GMs that Dan has plowed through, Koby may be the only one that actually deserved an extension.
Agreed with your last paragraph. Koby has been height & shoulders above our previous general managers.
 
He also had many opportunties to hire a Morey or a Hinkie and never took it...
 
Just a general thought here. Dan Gilbert has gotten a ton of crap for never committing to a GM until he finally granted an extension to Koby. I'm not trying to be a Dan apologist, as I know the man has certainly not been the perfect owner, but could it be fair to say that for the most part, he was right to let previous GMs go?

I actually liked Ferry, and was a little bummed to see him go. In particular, that one trade deadline that landed us Delonte West, Joe Smith and Ben Wallace was an incredible haul, given what he had to work with.

Grant was pretty damn good at bending desperate GMs over when it came to trades, but I'm sure that also made him not well-liked in the GM fraternity which may have come back to bite him in the ass if he was ever desperate to make a deal himself sometime in the future. I could have lived with that if his drafts weren't such horseshit.

And then we had Griffin, a likeable dude who will likely always bring back fond memories, but his ability to manage assets was piss fucking poor. He had some nice trades and generally had a good feel for the pulse of the locker room. We don't have much to evaluate his drafts off of because he handed out all of the picks he had like candy.

And now we have Koby. I don't think many of us would argue that he's been killing it, but I do feel that he has demonstrated a reasonable amount of competence across the board. I've been ok with his drafts, despite the questions about whether the pieces will fit. The Kyrie trade sucked, but his more recent trades have been pretty decent. The Love extension was a major fuckup, but I'm hoping he's learned since then not to hand out future-crippling contracts.

I think a reasonable argument could be made that of the previous GMs that Dan has plowed through, Koby may be the only one that actually deserved an extension.

Right now I see him as a good GM for the phase we are in. I just don't know if he has shown anything beyond being able to draft in the top 8 and trading for Allen.

I really wanted to see him if he could hit on a draft pick outside the top 8 in this draft. We will see if he can pick up anyone with the MLE.

I don't see his job as safe yet. I think things have to come together this year.
 
He also had many opportunties to hire a Morey or a Hinkie and never took it...
Not sure what you mean by this -- are you saying that he had many opportunities to hire someone like those two guys, or that he had many opportunities to actually hire either of them?

If the former, I don't think we ever had a real shot to hire Morey. And every team in the league had a shot at hiring Hinkie and passed -- kind of odd that of all names, his is one that comes up.

If you're simply just saying that Dan has had plenty of opportunities to hire a very good GM, then sure, fair point. My original point had more to do with pointing out that moving on from Grant and Griffin could easily be justified.
 
Just a general thought here. Dan Gilbert has gotten a ton of crap for never committing to a GM until he finally granted an extension to Koby. I'm not trying to be a Dan apologist, as I know the man has certainly not been the perfect owner, but could it be fair to say that for the most part, he was right to let previous GMs go?

I actually liked Ferry, and was a little bummed to see him go. In particular, that one trade deadline that landed us Delonte West, Joe Smith and Ben Wallace was an incredible haul, given what he had to work with.

Grant was pretty damn good at bending desperate GMs over when it came to trades, but I'm sure that also made him not well-liked in the GM fraternity which may have come back to bite him in the ass if he was ever desperate to make a deal himself sometime in the future. I could have lived with that if his drafts weren't such horseshit.

And then we had Griffin, a likeable dude who will likely always bring back fond memories, but his ability to manage assets was piss fucking poor. He had some nice trades and generally had a good feel for the pulse of the locker room. We don't have much to evaluate his drafts off of because he handed out all of the picks he had like candy.

And now we have Koby. I don't think many of us would argue that he's been killing it, but I do feel that he has demonstrated a reasonable amount of competence across the board. I've been ok with his drafts, despite the questions about whether the pieces will fit. The Kyrie trade sucked, but his more recent trades have been pretty decent. The Love extension was a major fuckup, but I'm hoping he's learned since then not to hand out future-crippling contracts.

I think a reasonable argument could be made that of the previous GMs that Dan has plowed through, Koby may be the only one that actually deserved an extension.

He should've kept Brock Aller, though.
 
Right now I see him as a good GM for the phase we are in. I just don't know if he has shown anything beyond being able to draft in the top 8 and trading for Allen.

I really wanted to see him if he could hit on a draft pick outside the top 8 in this draft. We will see if he can pick up anyone with the MLE.

I don't see his job as safe yet. I think things have to come together this year.
I'm pretty much in agreement with almost all of this. He hasn't proved to be an amazing executive, but he's demonstrated general competence, which is more than can be said of some of his predecessors. His future should absolutely not be secure just yet, and this team absolutely needs to demonstrate on the court that it is trending in the right direction this season to justify keeping him around. That doesn't mean we have to make the playoffs this year -- to be honest I'd probably be happiest if we get one last crack at the lottery while we see tangible signs of a promising future, particularly in the second half of the season.

I'd actually be pretty wary of making a splash with the MLE. This season is all about developing our young core. If we could ink a veteran that would be instrumental in that development process on a one or two-year deal, I'm all for it. As it stands, we have a pretty tight window when we can set ourselves up to actually have anything more than the MLE in future free agency periods, so I hope Koby is very judicious in how he navigates FA.
 
I'm pretty much in agreement with almost all of this. He hasn't proved to be an amazing executive, but he's demonstrated general competence, which is more than can be said of some of his predecessors. His future should absolutely not be secure just yet, and this team absolutely needs to demonstrate on the court that it is trending in the right direction this season to justify keeping him around. That doesn't mean we have to make the playoffs this year -- to be honest I'd probably be happiest if we get one last crack at the lottery while we see tangible signs of a promising future, particularly in the second half of the season.

I'd actually be pretty wary of making a splash with the MLE. This season is all about developing our young core. If we could ink a veteran that would be instrumental in that development process on a one or two-year deal, I'm all for it. As it stands, we have a pretty tight window when we can set ourselves up to actually have anything more than the MLE in future free agency periods, so I hope Koby is very judicious in how he navigates FA.

I don't think we needed to make a splash with the MLE but not getting a 3pt shooting wing with it is going to hurt the development of this team. Maybe Koby will pull something out but it isn't looking good. The market looks real dry for that area of need with the free agent market now.
 
Does he survive if we finish bottom 3 in the East again?
 
I'm still a huge supporter of Koby Altman. Even more now than when I posted this thread.

The Kevin Porter situation wasn't on him. We had a huge talent, but obviously he's a head case.

The Jarrett Allen trade & extension was huge. We fixed our frontcourt in a span of months.

Kudos to him. This team is headed in the right direction.
 
I'm still a huge supporter of Koby Altman. Even more now than when I posted this thread.

The Kevin Porter situation wasn't on him. We had a huge talent, but obviously he's a head case.

The Jarrett Allen trade & extension was huge. We fixed our frontcourt in a span of months.

Kudos to him. This team is headed in the right direction.
It's all part of it
PROSCONS
Allen Trade/extensionAndre Drummond trade/buy-out
Sexton draftPorter miss-handling
Garland DraftWindler draft instead of Keldon Johnson
Okoro DraftKevin Love extension
Mobely Draft (so far)John Beilein hire
Rubio Trade (on paper anyway)Triston Thompson walking (function of Drummond trade)
'17-18 mid-season re-tool around LeBronlack of vets to force internal competition
Wade/Stevens diamond in the rough findsIrving trade
Larry Nance extensionBrodric Thomas with a roster spot
 
It's all part of it
PROSCONS
Allen Trade/extensionAndre Drummond trade/buy-out
Sexton draftPorter miss-handling
Garland DraftWindler draft instead of Keldon Johnson
Okoro DraftKevin Love extension
Mobely Draft (so far)John Beilein hire
Rubio Trade (on paper anyway)Triston Thompson walking (function of Drummond trade)
'17-18 mid-season re-tool around LeBronlack of vets to force internal competition
Wade/Stevens diamond in the rough findsIrving trade
Larry Nance extensionBrodric Thomas with a roster spot
I think Koby has done a rather good job - NBA rebuilds take a long time, particularly for the teams that aren't free agent destinations. If he finds us our league average or better SF without giving-up any core pieces we are on our way.

I agree with most of your Pro's/Cons but I don't understand why TT walking was a con? By the time TT left he certainly didn't fit with our roster or our rebuild plans. I think the entire league knew we weren't going to re-sign him and he also wasn't a substantial enough player that teams were going to give up real assets to trade for him in his last season. Any insight into why you think letting him walk was bad? Did you think we should have re-signed him? Did you think we could have traded him for something of value? Some other reason?
 
It's all part of it
PROSCONS
Allen Trade/extensionAndre Drummond trade/buy-out
Sexton draftPorter miss-handling
Garland DraftWindler draft instead of Keldon Johnson
Okoro DraftKevin Love extension
Mobely Draft (so far)John Beilein hire
Rubio Trade (on paper anyway)Triston Thompson walking (function of Drummond trade)
'17-18 mid-season re-tool around LeBronlack of vets to force internal competition
Wade/Stevens diamond in the rough findsIrving trade
Larry Nance extensionBrodric Thomas with a roster spot

You can make an argument that it starts and ends with the Love deal. Letting Love walk would've allowed them to take on bad contracts for additional assets while tanking just the same. They would've been primed to trade for a young star or traded up in a draft or two and at the very least had enough cap space to sign valuable veterans that could fill the gaps (size + shooting) while adding a level professionalism the team has been lacking.
 

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