Kyrie Irving

[Omar The Horse]

View: https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/cavaliers-gm-david-griffin-kyries-decision-to-stay-here-is-what-set-in-motion-everything-else


Very brief snippet of David Griffin talking about Kyrie's decision to stay and what he told Griffin after hitting the Game 7 shot.

I think it might surprise some of you.

 

[BooyaCS]

View: https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/cavaliers-gm-david-griffin-kyries-decision-to-stay-here-is-what-set-in-motion-everything-else


Very brief snippet of David Griffin talking about Kyrie's decision to stay and what he told Griffin after hitting the Game 7 shot.

I think it might surprise some of you.

Uh Oh... Should the NBA be worried?

 

[David.]

I was hyped on kyrie last year preseason because he was talking about his defense.

I'm not even saying I hope he actually follows through this season because it doesn't matter. We'll adjust when the playoffs start and we're getting to the finals

 

[Adam]

View: https://soundcloud.com/siriusxmnba/cavaliers-gm-david-griffin-kyries-decision-to-stay-here-is-what-set-in-motion-everything-else


Very brief snippet of David Griffin talking about Kyrie's decision to stay and what he told Griffin after hitting the Game 7 shot.

I think it might surprise some of you.

That's just sexy

 

[Ohio]

I hate to even ask but why are people saying Rubio is "fucking garbage"?

Just because he lacks svoring efficiency? Because he may be the top pg defender, top 5 in assist ratio and third in ast/to, and a good rebounder for his position.

Can we start to fix some of these biases and misconceptions?

Where do you get the idea Rubio is a top notch defender? When I watch him play I see him gamble for steals constantly because he's not very good at staying in front of his defender...much like Steph Curry, actually.

 

[David.]

Where do you get the idea Rubio is a top notch defender? When I watch him play I see him gamble for steals constantly because he's not very good at staying in front of his defender...much like Steph Curry, actually.

Check out opponent fg% too

 

[BimboColesHair]

 

[Real Deal]

Good Shit bimbo

 

[Ohio]

Check out opponent fg% too

Interesting. I still think calling him the best is a stretch.

It's just brutal in today's NBA to have a backcourt player that really just can't shoot at all.

While it is nice he can defend and rebound, no PG in the league can guard the elite PGs very well (kinda funny how that works honestly) and rebounding can easily come from other positions. His assists and lack of turnovers are nice but I'm not sure that makes up for his inability to score. Even Rondo, in his prime, was unable to shoot but was still able to score in different ways. He even had 40 point games in the playoffs...right now I could never see Rubio doing that.

I'd take the vast majority of starters over Rubio because they provide more of what most teams need from a backcourt player than Rubio. I mean if you built a team of shooters around Rubio they could be good, but who is going to build a team around Rubio? The problem is most/all of the elite offensive players in this league need the ball in their hands quite a bit, just like Rubio. But the elite players are much more dynamic offensively and bring a hell of a lot more to the table on that side of the court than Rubio. Revolving your offense around Rubio (which really you have to because he's worthless without the ball in his hands) is not a formula that is going to lead to championship contention.

There's a reason Minnesota is trying to dump him. I think he'd be better served as a backup, honestly.

 

[David.]

Interesting. I still think calling him the best is a stretch.

It's just brutal in today's NBA to have a backcourt player that really just can't shoot at all.

While it is nice he can defend and rebound, no PG in the league can guard the elite PGs very well (kinda funny how that works honestly) and rebounding can easily come from other positions. His assists and lack of turnovers are nice but I'm not sure that makes up for his inability to score. Even Rondo, in his prime, was unable to shoot but was still able to score in different ways. He even had 40 point games in the playoffs...right now I could never see Rubio doing that.

I'd take the vast majority of starters over Rubio because they provide more of what most teams need from a backcourt player than Rubio. I mean if you built a team of shooters around Rubio they could be good, but who is going to build a team around Rubio? The problem is most/all of the elite offensive players in this league need the ball in their hands quite a bit, just like Rubio. But the elite players are much more dynamic offensively and bring a hell of a lot more to the table on that side of the court than Rubio. Revolving your offense around Rubio (which really you have to because he's worthless without the ball in his hands) is not a formula that is going to lead to championship contention.

There's a reason Minnesota is trying to dump him. I think he'd be better served as a backup, honestly.

With a team full of players like wiggins, kat, Lavine etc, having someone who can distribute and lead breaks(rebound, push or steal,push) is more important than having another scorer arguably.

There's counting stats and advanced stats that back up his level of play in all facets of the game excluding scoring, and including overall team play including scoring.

"Fucking garbage" should not be repped five times without so much as a sentence of disagreement.

As far as Minnesota having a great idea on how to win, I'll wait another ten years to see if they've made the playoffs yet. It's hard to judge what they want as being a good move.

I don't see how pushing kg away or trying to trade the only other veteran the team, who fits the team, is a good move. Everyone on this team is basically a teen-ager with no winning experience

 

[Ohio]

Popcornmachine.net is another of my favorite sites because of how they track the game flows and rotations.

Never heard of that site before, but that URL made me laugh.

So, like I've said from the beginning, I could be missing something about Korver, but there's a LOT of data there to say he's really important to the Hawks. And not just his shooting, but his presence on the floor within their system.

The thing I and others have taken issue with is when you've used +/- to determine which individual player is better, like with Korver/Millsap, among others. It's inapplicable. Now, as far as valuable goes, which I think is what you've been getting at now, I think there's an argument that could be made that Korver was more valuable to their team in the regular season than Millsap. There's quite a bit that could go into that (league wide emphasis on spacing/three point shooting, Millsap changing his play style to be a stretch 4, the makeup of the roster...i.e., being better able to replace Millsap's production in the regular season than Korver's, Millsap being asked to be a primary scorer where Korver is asked to play off him, Horford and Teague, etc). If you put Korver on say, the Sixers last season, I think you'd see some significantly different results for Korver's +/-. He needs dynamic scorers to play off of in order to fulfill his role. Whereas with Millsap, I'm not sure you'd see a much different result in his +/-.

But, as LeBron pointed out, there is a difference between Most Valuable and best player. I don't think anyone would dispute that Curry was the best player in the regular season last year. But, was he really the most valuable? Not in my opinion. Shit, many have argued he wasn't even the most valuable on his own team. However, he was still the best player on his team and in the entire league. Luckily for him, the MVP award has turned into 'best player on a contender' award and has been that way for quite awhile now.

But another season of Stephon Marbury averaging 20 & 8 isn't going to tell you those numbers aren't contributing to winning.

For much of his career Starbury was a high volume/low efficiency scorer and brought little else to the table (there were an alarming amount of players like this back in those days, a time in the NBA that sucked), so I never really thought much of him. But I think a point to be made here is he spent much of his career rotting on shit teams. Whereas with Kidd, who you mentioned earlier, spent much of his career playing with some very good players. Trust me, I'm not saying Starbury is better than Kidd, but again, using +/- to compare which player is better is just too messy to be a legitimate argument.

Well, Korver is getting older and it looks like he's already fallen off some in the past year. If opponents stop struggling to defend him or he gets hurt, we should see the Hawks make a precipitous fall that the addition of Howard will do nothing to prevent.

Horford brought some things to that team offensively that they are definitely going to miss. Korver could end up being a casualty because of that...and yes, having Dwight on the team probably won't help him either.

 

[Ohio]

With a team full of players like wiggins, kat, Lavine etc, having someone who can distribute and lead breaks(rebound, push or steal,push) is more important than having another scorer arguably.

I agree they don't need another SCORER per se, but man just having the ability to make an open shot would be really nice.

 

[godfather]

I hate to even ask but why are people saying Rubio is "fucking garbage"?

Just because he lacks svoring efficiency? Because he may be the top pg defender, top 5 in assist ratio and third in ast/to, and a good rebounder for his position.

Can we start to fix some of these biases and misconceptions?

The guy is a career 35% shooter from the floor. That's awful. In this day of age, if you're not at least some threat to score the ball as a guard, not even in a large volume, but in some way, then you have no business being a starter in the league. And he doesn't belong as one. So yes, as a starting point guard he is garbage.

I think he's a great passer. Even his defense is overrated IMO. He's great at playing passing lanes that results in a lot of steals, which does factor into RPM by the way, which again makes the stat skewed. Does his defense make a significant enough of a difference to make up for the fact he's a 100% liability on offense? No.

Does that sound like someone that's good. David, I think you factor defense WAY too much frankly in your rankings too.

There's no defensive point guard on the planet that's good enough to stop guys like CP3, Curry, Kyrie, etc...

EDIT: Speaking of DRPM; why is it that point guards have the lowest plus-minus? Because I think the answer is obvious, they make the least amount of impact defensively on the floor. The numbers back it up, go look at it.

This is not same as evaluating centers/power forwards, or even wing players, which IMO have a much greater impact defensively than a point guard can ever have. Another reason why I think its irrelevant when comparing point guards. Hell, as long he's an adequate defender, that's all that matters.

So think about it Kevin Love is a 2.11 plus defender. That's better than every point guard in the league other than Chris Paul. And ranks 12th in the stat among power forwards.

Also given its based on number of points allowed per possession. Obviously Rubio's ability to get steals plays part of this equation, but also the unit he plays with too, given we can take away point guards, in no way shape and form, can control everyone who scores on the court. Is his big men good defenders, do they protect the rim well? Etc, etc... I rather evaluate DRPM more with big men, since they themselves clearly do impact the game a lot more defensively, regardless who is on the court with them most the time.

So Rubio is second in DRPM at his position? Who cares, it's pretty meaningless when we're evaluating value on that side of the court, which isn't that much. Being a 1.89 plus defender is not going to impact your team much on wins and losses.

 

[Just Checkin]

Rubio is good. His lack of a jumper really puts a cap on him though. When you're a ball handler you at least need to be a threat to score, and if you're playing off a two guys who like to post (Wiggins and Towns) you either need a jumper or be able to finish off the dribble.

 

[gourimoko]

The guy is a career 35% shooter from the floor. That's awful. In this day of age, if you're not at least some threat to score the ball as a guard, not even in a large volume, but in some way, then have no business being a starter in the league. And he doesn't belong as one. So yes, as a starting point guard he is garbage.

I think he's a great passer. Even his defense is overrated IMO. He's great at playing passing lanes that results in a lot of steals, which does factor into RPM by the way, which again makes the stat skewed. Does his defense make a significant enough of a difference to make up for the fact he's a 100% liability on offense? No.

Does that sound like someone that's good. David, I think you factor defense WAY too much frankly in your rankings too.

There's no defensive point guard on the planet that's good enough to stop guys like CP3, Curry, Kyrie, etc...

EDIT: Speaking of DRPM; why is it that point guards have the lowest plus-minus? Because I think the answer is obvious, they make the least amount of impact defensively on the floor. The numbers back it up, go look at it.

This is not same as evaluating centers/power forwards, or even wing players, which IMO have a much greater impact defensively than a point guard can ever have. Another reason why I think its irrelevant when comparing point guards. Hell, as long he's an adequate defender, that's all that matters.

So think about it Kevin Love is a 2.11 plus defender. That's better than every point guard in the league other than Chris Paul. And ranks 12th in the stat among power forwards.

Also given its based on number of points allowed per possession. Obviously Rubio's ability to get steals plays part of this equation, but also the unit he plays with too, given we can take away point guards, in no way shape and form, can control everyone who scores on the court. Is his big men good defenders, do they protect the rim well? Etc, etc... I rather evaluate DRPM more with big men, since they themselves clearly do impact the game a lot more defensively, regardless who is on the court with them most the time.

So Rubio is second in DRPM at his position? Who cares, it's pretty meaningless when we're evaluating value on that side of the court, which isn't that much. Being a 1.89 plus defender is not going to impact your team much on wins and losses.

This is such a great post.