Minor League game thread 7/14-7/16

[petes999]

This is news to us.

I know .... but in reality, when is he going to get an opportunity? I am all for him having umpteen chances and have gone to bat for him more than once. But, struggling and not being given a chance is putting him in Jones/Benson territory where he is better off somewhere else. If they don't bench or trade Rosario by deadline, is he going to jump Freeman for utility next year or Rocchio for SS time??? Now, if CDAV has his way and they trade Freeman for SP, he has another shot as the utility guy next year (Fry/Lava in that 13th man role) - which I am fine with. But, then the following year, Brito and Martinez?? So maybe poor choice of words but struggling with a wave coming up behind you means not making this team come next year unless he has a big shift soon (the struggle part) or they finally trade some of the MIF logjam that is building with him caught right up in front ready to be blown over.

And, if they really believe in him (like Rosario), why is Fry leap frogging him for some RF time? I still think he is young enough to make it ... somewhere. It may not just be with us where I was leading to with that message which I thought was a shame with them putting Rosario as a roadblock to this first wave. I even said more than once that he wasn't getting a fair opportunity this year to build confidence and a rythem. So in a sense he failed as he didn't succeed like Kwan in his first opportunity as you say many don't. But, is there room for a 2nd, 3rd or 4th chance with the wave coming?

 

[BimboColesHair]

I know .... but in reality, when is he going to get an opportunity? I am all for him having umpteen chances and have gone to bat for him more than once. But, struggling and not being given a chance is putting him in Jones/Benson territory where he is better off somewhere else. If they don't bench or trade Rosario by deadline, is he going to jump Freeman for utility next year or Rocchio for SS time??? Now, if CDAV has his way and they trade Freeman for SP, he has another shot as the utility guy next year (Fry/Lava in that 13th man role) - which I am fine with. But, then the following year, Brito and Martinez?? So maybe poor choice of words but struggling with a wave coming up behind you means not making this team come next year unless he has a big shift soon (the struggle part) or they finally trade some of the MIF logjam that is building with him caught right up in front ready to be blown over.

And, if they really believe in him (like Rosario), why is Fry leap frogging him for some RF time? I still think he is young enough to make it ... somewhere. It may not just be with us where I was leading to with that message which I thought was a shame with them putting Rosario as a roadblock to this first wave. I even said more than once that he wasn't getting a fair opportunity this year to build confidence and a rythem. So in a sense he failed as he didn't succeed like Kwan in his first opportunity as you say many don't. But, is there room for a 2nd, 3rd or 4th chance with the wave coming?

Why are we already pegging him as having no chance, Freeman as the utility, and Rocchio as the everyday SS?

 

[Criznit]

Why are we already pegging him as having no chance, Freeman as the utility, and Rocchio as the everyday SS?

Well if it were up to me...

We'd park Freeman at 2B, Gimenez at SS and Arias at super utility... Rocchio is my trade chip, with Brito and even Arias ready to squeeze in as needed.

So Daniel Schneemann... Is he generating any real heat? Even as a small trade piece? The young man has had one helluva season, seemingly out of nowhere.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Well if it were up to me...

We'd park Freeman at 2B, Gimenez at SS and Arias at super utility... Rocchio is my trade chip, with Brito and even Arias ready to squeeze in as needed.

So Daniel Schneemann... Is he generating any real heat? Even as a small trade piece? The young man has had one helluva season, seemingly out of nowhere.

Gimenez isn't moving to SS in the middle of a season.

Barring an unforeseen change too, that ship is about to sail fully away like Jose moving back to 2B before it.

None of these guys are going to be handed the starting MIF spot opposite of Gimenez for 2024, should they still be on the roster. They certainly aren't going to be handed it in 2023.

 

[petes999]

Why are we already pegging him as having no chance, Freeman as the utility, and Rocchio as the everyday SS?

I don't think I said that and if I did initially, I tried to correct it ... "So maybe poor choice of words but struggling with a wave coming up behind you means not making this team come next year unless he has a big shift soon (the struggle part) or they finally trade some of the MIF logjam that is building with him caught right up in front ready to be blown over."

The question is your vanilla or chocolate "Rosario or Arias". Seems to me (IMO) that they kept Rosario to in place (when Arias should have been given a legit shot along with Freeman). And. you said at one point Rocchio has that "it" factor when entering a club house. And said, "Rocchio has a higher floor, and in a shiftless MLB probably has more value defensively at SS than Arias because he has more side-to-side range." Yes, you also said Arias has more power (so vanilla or chocolate choice) and why I saw/see him as a good super utility to get his bat in line up every 5 days a week subbing everyone and doing a bit of DH/1B. Yet, they blocked him there too with Bell (until after next year it seems as opting out probably isn't an option). And, OF log-jam starts to include Valera at some position whether LF/CF/RF probably next year (making Freeman more attractive by taking away some opportunities where Arias is better). What I meant really is his opportunities are getting more challanging (then it should have been this year with Rosario) and why I asked "is he going to jump Freeman for utility next year or Rocchio for SS time???" Just seemed like this year was his year to shine and it gets tougher next year (as odds get harder the more competition he has - who can grasp the golden ring as MLB starter first?). It's not over for him and why I said "I still think he is young enough to make it ... somewhere. It may not just be with us."

 

[Criznit]

Gimenez isn't moving to SS in the middle of a season.

Barring an unforeseen change too, that ship is about to sail fully away like Jose moving back to 2B before it.

None of these guys are going to be handed the starting MIF spot opposite of Gimenez for 2024, should they still be on the roster. They certainly aren't going to be handed it in 2023.

I don't think I am asking for any job to be handed to Freeman quite frankly. Has he not played well? If he ends up playing SS that's not ideal, but compared to Amed? I would roll the dice. We've been conditioned for years that Freeman would have to move off of SS, maybe that turns out not to be the case.

Can't deny Arias's struggles at the dish. Can't deny he can play any position and several of those quite well.

If Gimenez is locked in at 2nd, which is fine with me as he is superb there...I have to ask, WTH are we going to do with Brito then?

 

[Martyinnewyork]

What I’m REALLY afraid of is that the Guardians extend and keep Rosario. Then Freeman, Arias, Rocchio, Brito, Angel Martinez are put to the curb for recycling. This thought terrifies me.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I don't think I am asking for any job to be handed to Freeman quite frankly. Has he not played well? If he ends up playing SS that's not ideal, but compared to Amed? I would roll the dice. We've been conditioned for years that Freeman would have to move off of SS, maybe that turns out not to be the case.

Can't deny Arias's struggles at the dish. Can't deny he can play any position and several of those quite well.

If Gimenez is locked in at 2nd, which is fine with me as he is superb there...I have to ask, WTH are we going to do with Brito then?

He has played well. So has Arias for stretches. Not the point I am trying to make.

Neither of them, or Rocchio, are going to get enough chances this year where you are entering the 2024 season going this guy is the favorite for the position. Unless something really strange happens, its not happening this year.

Freeman is playing well, but he isn't going to play enough where you can make decisions off of it. Arias has played well when given a consistent role and at bats and has handled RHP well, something that can be developed off of as an everyday player as we are seeing with Josh Naylor this season, but not enough where you can make decisions off of it.

It's going to be a "go win the job" thing in Spring, and if I had to guess at the moment should everyone still be on the roster this time next spring Arias will get first crack at it, thanks in large part to his options status. But again, that's if all of these guys are still in the organization come spring.

If Brito hits enough we'll find a place for him to play. Same thing with Angel Martinez.

 

[Real Deal]

We simply are too loaded with Brito leap frogging onto the scene. Really going to have to pull the trigger on a bat that fits our timeline. Would love to pair Hosey with someone of his stature at the expense of prospects.

 

[KluberSociety]

He has played well. So has Arias for stretches. Not the point I am trying to make.

Neither of them, or Rocchio, are going to get enough chances this year where you are entering the 2024 season going this guy is the favorite for the position. Unless something really strange happens, its not happening this year.

Freeman is playing well, but he isn't going to play enough where you can make decisions off of it. Arias has played well when given a consistent role and at bats and has handled RHP well, something that can be developed off of as an everyday player as we are seeing with Josh Naylor this season, but not enough where you can make decisions off of it.

It's going to be a "go win the job" thing in Spring, and if I had to guess at the moment should everyone still be on the roster this time next spring Arias will get first crack at it, thanks in large part to his options status. But again, that's if all of these guys are still in the organization come spring.

If Brito hits enough we'll find a place for him to play. Same thing with Angel Martinez.

I guess what this means is - give up all hope of seeing anything other than Amed almost every day of the year.

 

[BimboColesHair]

We simply are too loaded with Brito leap frogging onto the scene. Really going to have to pull the trigger on a bat that fits our timeline. Would love to pair Hosey with someone of his stature at the expense of prospects.

Been trying.

Will keep trying too. The timeline is Josey's extension. We will have all of our starting pitching on cheap pre-arb and early arb years, a handful of everyday guys in the same boat, Clase and Stephan on team friendly deals, Gimenez under contract, and a lot of money for the lineup, a la 2016-2020.

 

[Real Deal]

I guess what this means is - give up all hope of seeing anything other than Amed almost every day of the year.

Then he plays himself into a very affordable contract and Hosey again promotes bringing him back -- Dolan's listen.

Then we trade all 20 INF's for a big bopper.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I guess what this means is - give up all hope of seeing anything other than Amed almost every day of the year.

Barring something really strange.

Tanking out of the gate, injury, or something too good to be true falling into our lap.

 

[CDAV45]

What I’m REALLY afraid of is that the Guardians extend and keep Rosario. Then Freeman, Arias, Rocchio, Brito, Angel Martinez are put to the curb for recycling. This thought terrifies me.

There's no way this happens with all the MIF depth. I'd waste my time worrying about something else.

 

[petes999]

It's going to be a "go win the job" thing in Spring, and if I had to guess at the moment should everyone still be on the roster this time next spring Arias will get first crack at it, thanks in large part to his options status. But again, that's if all of these guys are still in the organization come spring.

I admit that I am usually wrong when matched with your insights ... And, I see 3 main battles brewing with 5 people (don't count the bench warmer 13th guy).

SS/Util - Rocchio/Arias/Freeman (just thought it was Arias had an golden opportunity to grab the upper hand early but is now losing time to Fry/Freeman the last few weeks).
4th OF - Oscar/Valera (assume Arias is still in the running here but again just harder to hold onto his spot)
13th guy - Fry/Lava

But, Arias and Freeman are on track to both go in with 1 option next year (Freeman had 2 this year and Arias 1). Yet, if they didn't call up Oscar now with a slew of lefties slotted in these first 10 days, will the Guard option Arias before year-end to get consistent ABs which many of us thought would be best for his development? So going into next year, Arias and Freeman are both that Jones 1 year option (same as Rocchio who had 2 this year) where you don't want to hold onto a guy too long before they lose all their value. Will be an interesting off-season. But, with 40-man issues coming, it maybe that Jones/Benson trades again that need to be considered even before ST where 1 is traded- and let Rocchio/Martinez and Brito be the heir apparent with their 1-2 options remaining. Just saying.