Moves the Indians should make for the 2nd half

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Out of the Rafters at the Q

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I am completely neutral on Luplow myself, but he doesn't become a FA until 2025 so there maybe some value there for someone. Maybe that is us, maybe it's not.

Eddie on the other hand is a FA at the end of the year and owed around 4 million bucks. He isn't playing well this year and it is hard for me to see how he would be an improvement in any capacity for any real contender. He is pretty much a LFer only and I don't see how any contender would be looking at him to upgrade.

Not sure how the waiver/trades work now but we will take anything for him if we end up selling.
Yup, I usually assume that we're interested in moving short-term assets as we approach the trade deadline, while long-term assets hold more value to us.
 

Gson

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Whether or not it's Luplow's doing..

Luplow played half the games in 2019
Luplow played half the games in 2020
Luplow played less than half the games in 2021..

Having a player on a fiscally limited roster who has a track record of playing half the time means he's a big time contributor or a big waste.. In 2019.. Luplow contributed and contributed nicely.. since then.. not even close to enough..

The Indians have control over him for three more years after this season.. That should be just one part of the reason to keep and pay him going forward..
 

Gson

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A trade would be profitable If our asset base was barren, but I think our position is currently better served by retaining and consolidating assets.
Expanding or appreciating assets are to be held onto like grim death.. Not so much with the converse..
 

mopete12

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Whether or not it's Luplow's doing..

Luplow played half the games in 2019
Luplow played half the games in 2020
Luplow played less than half the games in 2021..

Having a player on a fiscally limited roster who has a track record of playing half the time means he's a big time contributor or a big waste.. In 2019.. Luplow contributed and contributed nicely.. since then.. not even close to enough..

The Indians have control over him for three more years after this season.. That should be just one part of the reason to keep and pay him going forward..
He’s definitely in Naquin territory now. I like Luplow because he can play both corner OF spots and CF in a pinch (all positions of need for CLE), and I believe he will continue to crush lefties, but it doesn’t matter if he’s always on the IL. I would like to keep him for another year because he should still be cheap, and I don’t think they are going to get anything for him this deadline, but I’d be fine if they trade him now or in the off-season.
 

Benway

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Expanding or appreciating assets are to be held onto like grim death.. Not so much with the converse..
We'd have to follow up with a major clearance that could spiral us into a tear-down. Even in this division, there's no telling how long that could last.
 

Alabuckeye

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A trade would be profitable If our asset base was barren, but I think our position is currently better served by retaining and consolidating assets.
From all appearances and FO statements, we intend to compete as early as next year. A trade of JRam for prospects does not fit that model. A strategic extension, indicating to fans that they are serious(assuming that JRam is interested, and there is some evidence he is), makes much more sense.

With that said, the CLEFO does not get attached to anyone and will deal JRam if it suits their ST and LT goals.
 

sportscoach

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imho...

Your numbers are light..
Your time is short..

More like 5 to 6 at an AAV of 30+.. Face of the franchise is nice..but, not at those numbers. The ownership of this team has decried they will be built on pitching and defense.. The ability to consistently and constantly reload the minor league squads to feed the parent club is essential for them to continue to compete.. There will be some transition years where competing becomes difficult/secondary to development.. but, at the end of the day.. the Indians play to win... they play to win every game that they walk onto the field... and they are entertaining.. like last night's loss..

Ask/answer this: If Jose's representation says he wants the AAV numbers 10 MM higher than you've stated.. does CLEFO do it?. or are they much more likely to resort to the inevitable?

Thoughts?

JRam is under contract for 24 million dollars the next two seasons, so the Indians have control over the next two seasons and if he decides to wait, he will be stuck betting on himself and would have to switch teams...

Bimbo even stated that JRam doesn't want to actually play for a big market team... That info would be hard to bet against, so its very likely his agent will find a way to stay with the Indians where he is the face of a franchise while still making good money. So taking a 4 year 80ish million contract would allow him to make the money he would be offered in free agency, while still playing for a smaller market team.

Now, I cannot say if JRams agent wants more years, but from what Bimbo said, and my own hunch, both parties want an extension done... I will not change my opinion and even though it is a business, if both parties want to get it done, then it's a very highly likely probability it will get done...


From all appearances and FO statements, we intend to compete as early as next year. A trade of JRam for prospects does not fit that model. A strategic extension, indicating to fans that they are serious(assuming that JRam is interested, and there is some evidence he is), makes much more sense.

With that said, the CLEFO does not get attached to anyone and will deal JRam if it suits their ST and LT goals.

Dolan was willing to keep Lindor at 20+ million a season... I don't see how he wouldn't be willing to keep JRam at the same price... We need a leader/face and if JRam can do that, then that's the best for ST and LT at the end of the day...
 

petes999

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From what I can tell, an extension actually can make sense for both parties...

At the current moment, JRam is set to make what 24 million Over the next two seasons and likely would get 30 Millionish a season if he actually hit free agency... So if you do the next four years... About 84 million dollars would be reasonable price for JRam over this time period. If we rework JRams contract, and do a 4 year 80ish million over the next 4 years, he would be getting the same amount of money he would be if he would have hit free agency after the 23 season, so JRam would lose nothing by taking the extension...

Also since we did offer Lindor over 20 million per season, I am guessing Dolan has okayed an extension like this. I actually would front load personally, but either way, the numbers plus Bimbos opinion and the agents normal way of doing contracts, it would actually be weird if the extension didn't happen... Also the PR side says "we need a face of the franchise" and extending JRam would give the PR guys someone as the face of the franchise..

My only opinion is that Jose isn’t doing a team friendly 4-year $20 million buyout contract. As he has $12 mill for a 29 year old and $14 for 30 year old, you are asking him to add $26 as 31 yr old and $28 as 32 year old (for same $80 total). So he takes less than market for mvp candidate and not extend it to 35/36 as he could in open market (selling lowon prime years on 2 counts $ and “older” buy out years).

It may take a minimum $25 million 4/5 year add-on to truly make him retire an Indian. I don’t doubt there is some mutual interest but until talks happen it’s only hope and prayer both are on same page.
 

sportscoach

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My only opinion is that Jose isn’t doing a team friendly 4-year $20 million buyout contract. As he has $12 mill for a 29 year old and $14 for 30 year old, you are asking him to add $26 as 31 yr old and $28 as 32 year old (for same $80 total). So he takes less than market for mvp candidate and not extend it to 35/36 as he could in open market.

It may take a $25 million 4/5 year add-on to truly make him retire an Indian. I don’t doubt there is some mutual interest but until talks happen it’s only hope and prayer both are on same page.

You would guarantee the money, so no option years...

I did the math earlier, he is making 24 between 22 and 23, while on paper making 30 Million in free agency for the 24 and 25 season makes the total 84 million dollars, so a 21 million dollar AVV over a contract, would money wise be equal to what he would make, so that part is 100% understandable and would happen without a doubt... To make sure I am 100% clear, JRams contract would be 21 million a season in years 22-25, replacing his previous contract that had buyouts...

Now the question mark is do we need to add more years than 4, so adding two more years would be 25-30 million a season on paper, now that's where the contract could have some issues. The first 4, I am 100% sure wouldn't be an issue from either side... The question is if we do more years, what is the cost per season after year four since market wise he will be 25+ more than likely... So if the deal doesn't get done with JRam, it's cause they couldn't agree on the length and the cost after the 4th season of the contract... Years 1-4 are actually reasonable for both parties
 

Gson

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We'd have to follow up with a major clearance that could spiral us into a tear-down. Even in this division, there's no telling how long that could last.
No tear down is coming or contemplated unless the feed from the minors proves to be abject failure..highly doubtful given the track record of the CLEFO and Pro Personnel Development group..
 
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Gson

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My only opinion is that Jose isn’t doing a team friendly 4-year $20 million buyout contract. As he has $12 mill for a 29 year old and $14 for 30 year old, you are asking him to add $26 as 31 yr old and $28 as 32 year old (for same $80 total). So he takes less than market for mvp candidate and not extend it to 35/36 as he could in open market (selling lowon prime years on 2 counts $ and “older” buy out years).

It may take a minimum $25 million 4/5 year add-on to truly make him retire an Indian. I don’t doubt there is some mutual interest but until talks happen it’s only hope and prayer both are on same page.
I think your numbers are quite a bit light..but, not embarrassingly light.. There is JUST SO MUCH $$$$$ in MLB and the players, including JRam want and deserve their share..
 

DerekG123

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I think your numbers are quite a bit light..but, not embarrassingly light.. There is JUST SO MUCH $$$$$ in MLB and the players, including JRam want and deserve their share..
99 out of 100 times somebody is gonna convince these guys that they are nuts for not getting the most they can get while they can. Just how sports works.
 

Benway

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I wouldn't give him $300mil/10; I wouldn't give that to anybody this side of Fernando Tatis. And I might not even give it to him.
 
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