Moves the Indians should make for the 2nd half

[Criznit]

I expect Amed to be dealt in the offseason. His defense is bad and the move to Straw seems to be a sign they are looking defense first up the middle.

His purported 2022 home has vanished with the acquisition of Straw, so unless he moves to 2nd base or lands in a corner..... It seems likely.

He is back in his zone at the moment and if he sustains it, I'll wanna keep him. But he likes to tease, so not holding my breath.

 

[CATS44]

One of the misconceptions I think fans have is that average is bad in baseball.

Somehow, a solid #3 or #4 SP is bad. So is a fairly consistent 2 WAR player.

Guys like Hernandez and Amed are valuable players. I wish we could surround JRam and Franmil with a whole team of them.

Our catching duo has combined to play about 900 games over the last six full seasons, not counting Covid 2020...and with the rest of this year to go. They have combined for 13.5 fWAR over those six years, or over 2 WAR per year.

Now we have added Straw, who has put up over 3 fWAR in the equivalent of one full season's worth of PAs.

So, as of right now, our roster has three players/combos to complement Jose and Franmil. We need four more.

 

[MadThinker88]

I expect Amed to be dealt in the offseason. His defense is bad and the move to Straw seems to be a sign they are looking defense first up the middle.

It is fine to expect (even hope for) a trade..
There have been many years where fans like us expected trades to materialize & take place (either at the deadline or during the off-season), but for some strange reason, the expected trades never happen/ materialize.

Perhaps the CLE FO sets too high a price tag. Perhaps the CLE FO is too attached to a player or focused on a target person. Whatever the reason, no trade happens.

I've gotten to the stage (either due to age or disappointment or enlightenment or whatever) that I focus on what is on hand now (in the majors & minors) without trades taking place. I can hope for trade right with the rest of you, but until it happens & we learn what the return is, these are the pieces that CLE has. Rosario/ Straw/ Gimenez/ Arias/ etc...

@CalBuckeyeRob / @Criznit / @33Y0
Each of you is preferring/ expecting a trade. Again that is fine. What are you doing it there are no trades or free agents signings??
Construct the 2022 club with the pieces you have on hand now (majors & minors). Are you still suggesting that Rosario has no role at all with club??

 

[CDAV45]

I'm just curious how the pieces will fit together. If they intend to field an OF that consists of Straw, Zimmer, Mercado, and HRam then I think that we will once again have the worst offensive OF in the major leagues, defense be damned. The very same applies to our C tandem. Great defensive players, but they absolutely suck offensively. Can Bradley not strike out at an unacceptable rate? We better hope because there is nobody other than Jones that fits the 1B description and Jones seems to suffer from the same weaknesses that Bradley does.

At this time I have no suggestions. I have no idea how they intend to construct this lineup so it's a wait see deal for me. Now that the deadline has passed without anything real exciting happening, there isn't much to discuss or get excited about from a positional POV. Straw looks like a good get, but he's not an offensive difference maker with the bat even though he's better than Zimmer and Mercado who now look relegated to the corners where their offensive profiles look even worse.

I still think this team is on the verge of being very competitive when Bieber and Civale return, but they lack a couple of hitters with pop to extend the lineup. I'm not worried as I'm sure they have a plan and that they realize that having a lineup as currently constructed will waste a very good pitching staff.

 

[buzzdog]

I don't know what everyone else is watching but Amed Rosario is turning into a pretty solid hitter, which is something that is in very short supply on this roster. His speed and his bat are a plus, and better than anything any of our other Swiss Army Knife utility players bring to the table.

I have my doubts that Miller or Clement will ever hit at this level, I'll believe it when I see it. So unless we get more hitters we need Rosario's offense.

I'd stick Amed at 2nd base come spring training. He actually shows excellent range in getting to some balls, and the shorter throw would help him. Just teach him some fundamentals about how to make the turn on double play balls.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

ARosario is becoming a very interesting player. I'm pretty confident in saying he can be part of a good baseball team. The question is where?

• I don't think his future is at SS.
• His future is not in CF now that we have Willie Ma, errr, Myles Straw playing there.
• I don't think he's going to play 3B in the foreseeable future.
• I'd rather not play him in a corner OF spot.
• 2B? Maybe

 

[CATS44]

The FO has to construct a roster that fits the competition, which is the AL Central.

Taking a look at the rotations of the other four teams and making a WAG at next year, it looks like about 40% of those rotations will feature southpaws. So, we will need a lineup that is competent vs lefties.

Who are our best hitters vs lefties? The answer might surprise you. It did me.

Obviously, Franmil hammers lefties and Jose hits them well. No surprise. Amed hits them well, too. They all have done it this year and in their careers, so they can be depended on to do so.

After those three, its Berto, who has a .759 career OPS and is at .802 this year.

Whodathunkit?

And then there's Bobby Bradley, who has had strong reverse splits this year and in 2019. The rest of his MiLB splits are a mixed bag.

We just traded away our best lefty masher in Luplow, and Cesar, who was hitting them very well, although normally a no split batter.

The rest of our lineup is between poor and defenseless vs lefties...mostly defenseless.

Next years team IMO almost certainly will feature Straw and Gimenez. Straw has never been able to hit lefties at the MLB level, and Gimenez is a left hand batter who has been a mixed bag in his pro career splits.

We just traded away two guys who hit lefties, and will probably add two starters who are unlikely to.

Does anybody think we might be looking for a RH bat? Does anybody really think the FO will trade away two players...Amed and Berto...who are two of the very few we have that can hit lefties?

Beyond that, the prospect that appears to be next in line is Jones, who can't hit lefties to save himself.

I think that anybody who makes up a list of players he thinks the FO will target this off season should keep all this in mind.

 

[petes999]

So, if we just traded away 2 guys who hit lefties and we face 40% lefties in our division, why wouldn't we trade away 2 more lefties? 4 is better than 2 ... and 2 is better than 0 but why would we even trade away the first 2 in the first place, if that would have helped the team compete better?

We really don't know. Cesar had a reasonable option at $6 mill (for most other clubs) but with younger kids, management wanted to clear the path for them and saw a need in AAA pitching next year (to avoid rushing more upside prospects that they had to do this year with Mejia and Hentges and next year with injuries to Cantillo, Morris, Hankins, Vargas). Luplow just couldn't stay healthy and they went with youth in Ramirez (they were not going to roster both come this fall) and again added more AAA pitching depth.

This off-season roster decisions will be interesting. I have been pushing Amed to CF for a long-time (and giving him time to adjust vs just throwing him out there). However, with Straw, his value is either at 2nd or SS or utility guy (as he is not a LF power hitter). Gimenez has hit .290 and .275 the last two months. Yes, he struggled early this season due to Indians adjusting his leg lift, I believe. I wouldn't be surprised to see him up soon (after Toronto visit which Mandy said was a VISA issue) to see if SS is his at BOY. They may wait a bit to see if Clement has anything, first.

However, come June (after Super 2 status if that isn't negotiated out of CBO), Arias WILL be up at either SS, 2nd or 3rd (if Ramirez isn't signed and thus traded). He has hit .286 and .310 the last two months. If you have an infield combo of Ramirez, Gimenez and Arias, where does Amed get pushed to? And, will you pay him that at $4+ milion (ARB 2) as a utility guy (especially if $6 million is too much for a 2nd baseman)?

So, it comes down to value. For most clubs, they would be happy with Amed at $4-$5 million as a super utility guy vs lefties. However, Indians have a glaring need in LF to fill either in FA or a trade. If Amed can be packaged with a prospect or two for a starting LF, his value is then maximized for a cash stingy team. This isn't that I am anti-Amed. He is hitting .287 last 30 games and .323 last 15. It is he has 2-years left and may get pushed to the side by younger, more controllable ($ and years wise) prospects soon. If he cannot be packaged for a LF (or another pitching prospect) this offseason then he will have a roster space created by cutting Chang and DFA Clement with the hopes to package him to a mid-level contender by June/July to free up the space needed for Arias and/or Freeman.

The name of the game right now for Indians is $s and years. They liked Straw as he only has just over 1 year of service time. They are not going to kick him to the side for Amed. Arias is clearly in our future. Gimenez will be given another shot. Freeman could have competed for 2nd next year to start the year but will be slowed a bit due to injury. Amed is just running out of time for OUR team but is useful to other teams that can pay more for a utility/middle-of-the road type guy.

 

[CATS44]

We are not going to fill the roster again next season with rookies and near rookies...and waste another year of our pitching staff and Jose.

The FO will bring in will bring in some vets...hopefully with control...that are more likely to produce than rookies.

We will also not put all our first base eggs in the Bobby Bradley basket.

We traded Luplow for three reasons. He is arby eligible, he is injury prone, and he brought back a solid SP prospect who is close to MLB ready, but doesn't have to be rostered.

Harold is hardly a clone of Luplow and is only a year younger. He is a below average hitter...92 OPS+ to Luplows 105 in the same amount of PAs. While Luplow is a solid defensive outfielder, Harold is among the worst in MLB. Harold is not a lock to survive the 40 man.

The FO is also not going to retain a roster full of players, esp LHers, who K a third of the time. For the Indians the model has changed from athletic big swingers with the hope of power that fan a lot to contact hitters that put the ball in play...skills over toolsy. We've seen it in our drafting, our free agent signing, and our trade acquisition trends.

In re Arias....

He is having a pretty good season in Columbus. Gimenez is having a better one. But when compared to the other RH/S MIF prospects (Miller, Freeman, Rocchio), all have been better offensively in their careers.

 

[Alabuckeye]

Harold Ramirez reminds me somewhat of Abe Almonte. Not in any specific baseball skill, but more in ability in relation to ML baseball. Abe is, or was as of last week before the Braves traded for 4 OF, rostered with them. He, and Harold, are good enough to stick for a while at the ML level, but not seemingly good enough to be considered long term. The are better than AAAA guys but not quite ML starters.

Does that make sense?

 

[LL3]

We can gnash our teeth as to hitting production of course, but in a decidedly non-sexy take, we need to play much better defense.

We did a great disservice to our pitching staff and the team in general as we have fielded a substandard defensive group nearly all season. Some of it was the result of us being in this transition year and wanting to give guys a chance to show what they could do/develop...though there has to be disappointment with the usually good Hernandez at second base. Berto being out for a good length of time was a hindrance,. Zimmer has returned to a good or better level defender after having been not so good the past few seasons, but prior to him taking a main role, we rotated through some average at best gloves in CF. The outfield situation was made worse by typically employing lessor defenders in the corners. Amed is obviously not good enough at SS...Jose is not a problem, but !B defense was not particularly good before Bobby Bradley has solidified the spot in recent weeks.

We can and will do better next year, and that will make a difference. Obviously that does not mean we should not seek to improve offensively, but for a pitching focused team on a budget, we must field a plus defensive unit.

 

[macbdog]

Amed is in that frustrating space where he is medicore but bc of his prospect pedigree folks hold out that he will still improve. He's more than replaceable and kind of disappointed the Gs didn't find a takeratthe trade deadline.

 

[Alabuckeye]

Amed is in that frustrating space where he is medicore but bc of his prospect pedigree folks hold out that he will still improve. He's more than replaceable and kind of disappointed the Gs didn't find a takeratthe trade deadline.

Well, if you find him mediocre and 'more than replaceable', why would a contender want him at the trade deadline?

 

[ZinAZ]

One of the misconceptions I think fans have is that average is bad in baseball.

Somehow, a solid #3 or #4 SP is bad. So is a fairly consistent 2 WAR player.

Guys like Hernandez and Amed are valuable players. I wish we could surround JRam and Franmil with a whole team of them.

Our catching duo has combined to play about 900 games over the last six full seasons, not counting Covid 2020...and with the rest of this year to go. They have combined for 13.5 fWAR over those six years, or over 2 WAR per year.

Now we have added Straw, who has put up over 3 fWAR in the equivalent of one full season's worth of PAs.

So, as of right now, our roster has three players/combos to complement Jose and Franmil. We need four more.

ya but Amed is not a 2 WAR guy or even a 1 WAR guy for that matter, The Indians have 2 players above 1.0 that is pitiful

 

[CATS44]

I dont know how you define mediocre, but I take it as not very good. Amed is hardly not very good. He is a 2 WAR player. He is also our fastest player.

Harold is not very good. Chang, Johnson, Mercado, and Zimmer are not very good. Bauers was not very good. All are older than Amed.