Moves the Indians should make for the 2nd half

[Criznit]

I don't think Miller is a long term option at 3rd, seems more likely he will battle it out for regular time at 2nd and wrestle the super util IF role from Chang.

 

[KluberSociety]

I think Miller should play almost everyday, mainly at 2B, but also some 3B and 1B to see if he can hit. His defense at 2B won’t be elite, but his scouting profile sounds like he will be acceptable there.

I would bring up Gimenez and play him at SS everyday, but I don’t know what to do with Amed.

As someone said above, Rosario is basically a known quantity (he’s still young but he has a lot of at bats and has not shown any improvement) and is mediocre at overall at best. The Tribe needs to use the rest of the year to see what some of the other prospects can do.

I think where we differ in opinion is that I see "mediocre" as an Indians starter next year. Given our surplus of replacement-level types and outside of the 2 SS's and Jones in AAA nothing compelling knocking on the door, a 2-2.5-ish WAR player will probably be one of 9 best options on the field every day. I wish I could be more optimistic but that's what we got.

I don't expect greatness from Amed, but I don't think he needs to be great to be an improvement over Harold, Zimmer, Mercado, Johnson, Naylor, Chang, Clement, et al. Of course many of these will not even be around next season but that only clarifies Amed being a pretty much every day player for me.

I don't think Miller is a long term option at 3rd, seems more likely he will battle it out for regular time at 2nd and wrestle the super util IF role from Chang.

I was the one that may have brought that up first and I see about the same, just that if he actually did hit what some people think he can, the everyday 3B would be more of his ceiling. As @mopete12 mentioned scouting reports seemed more favorable on Miller's fielding but I have not seen reason to believe in it translating to a middle IF. More of just an added bonus that he can be plugged into any IF position at a moment's notice to bring a bat-first approach (if he is hopefully able to get through his struggles).

 

[CATS44]

I dont agree that Straw and Zimmer are the same player.

I also don't agree that anybody is battling with Chang for a util role. Chang should be removed from any consideration.

 

[Urban]

Straw is more valuable because he strikes out significantly less than Zimmer.

Other than that, a lot of their strengths are extremely similar.

 

[KluberSociety]

Straw is more valuable because he strikes out significantly less than Zimmer.

Other than that, a lot of their strengths are extremely similar.

That's a pretty big difference, and Straw is also likely better defensively. He's also younger and I don't believe has had as much injury history. Like with Amed, I just don't think the roster competition is going to be strong enough for him to not be pretty much an everyday starter next year. And if he plays a good CF with a decent OBP and baserunning speed, I think we should be happy.

 

[mopete12]

Bradley and Morgan back. Chang and Johnson back to AAA. Makes sense.

 

[mopete12]

I think where we differ in opinion is that I see "mediocre" as an Indians starter next year. Given our surplus of replacement-level types and outside of the 2 SS's and Jones in AAA nothing compelling knocking on the door, a 2-2.5-ish WAR player will probably be one of 9 best options on the field every day. I wish I could be more optimistic but that's what we got.

I don't expect greatness from Amed, but I don't think he needs to be great to be an improvement over Harold, Zimmer, Mercado, Johnson, Naylor, Chang, Clement, et al. Of course many of these will not even be around next season but that only clarifies Amed being a pretty much every day player for me.


I was the one that may have brought that up first and I see about the same, just that if he actually did hit what some people think he can, the everyday 3B would be more of his ceiling. As @mopete12 mentioned scouting reports seemed more favorable on Miller's fielding but I have not seen reason to believe in it translating to a middle IF. More of just an added bonus that he can be plugged into any IF position at a moment's notice to bring a bat-first approach (if he is hopefully able to get through his struggles).

I definitely have less of a problem if they play Rosario at 2B over Miller than Rosario at SS over Gimenez.

 

[Criznit]

I definitely have less of a problem if they play Rosario at 2B over Miller than Rosario at SS over Gimenez.

Same here - but Amed has 0 games as a 2nd baseman... Could be it's own disaster..

 

[Benway]

Ernie Clement sure can pick it, but he's got less punch than Myles Straw and not much useable speed. Kind of a John McDonald of the hot corner. What a pleasure to watch him play 3B.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Bradley and Morgan back. Chang and Johnson back to AAA. Makes sense.

Our next three games are against left-handed starting pitchers. If this isn't the writing on the wall for Chang I don't know what is.

 

[CATS44]

Our next three games are against left-handed starting pitchers. If this isn't the writing on the wall for Chang I don't know what is.

I wonder if this is the last we see both Chang and Johnson in Cleveland.

*******

Name a starting MLB SS who couldn't make the move to second successfully.

There may be, but I can't think of one.

 

[Alabuckeye]

Daniel Johnson......this will be his epitaph...

DJ, we pined for you for years
Hoped that you'd be the next one
You, came and now you are gone
In a flash, like we never knew you.

 

[KluberSociety]

Same here - but Amed has 0 games as a 2nd baseman... Could be it's own disaster..

Yeah, regardless we might need some insurance for Gimenez/Arias though. I'm not convinced on Gimenez not being a bad hitter (which I think is the pretty low threshold that he'd need to cross in order to warrant the starting job). And Arias who seems to be improving probably will get the June callup at the earliest and has never even seen actual MLB ABs. So if one of the two is able to play but not the other, and Miller continues being the Miller we've seen, we're probably going to need Amed somewhere in the IF and I think while Amed SS/Arias 2B makes sense, we're probably going to see Gimenez first anyway and I wouldn't want to have to shift him over to 2B, just seems like a waste of talent but if they were both in the IF today that's probably what would have to happen.

 

[MadThinker88]

Antonetti is talking like Straw is the guy. He is a plus fielder. He can get on base decently. He doesn't strike out. He can steal some bags. This is the CF for the next year. There is absolutely no reason for them to trade for Straw if they don't expect him to hold the job at least through 2022.

They tried the Rosario experiment in CF. If they thought it had a future we'd still be seeing it mixed in from time to time. To me it's clear they've binned the idea.

As to your last point, let's see how the last 60 games play out, maybe we learn something new about these bums in LF and RF but having Rosario on the roster does not play a role in deciding to keep or ditch Zimmer/Mercado/Daniel Johnson/insert speedy defender who can't generate runs here.

And if like the other poster you're envisioning a world where Amed can compete for LF or RF, good god, just end me.

Once you eliminate the possibility of Amed being the long term SS, the logical path is, he gone. If you see him as long term SS, ok, fine (also you got some 'splainin to do). If that's the argument, I can see it. But it doesn't stick. Gimenez, Freeman, Arias.. he's not staying at short and now he's got no place to go. I like his personality and his play style but bye-bye.

The point in bold is the focal point of our disagreement.
Your stance suggests the Amed was taken out of CF due to his short-comings alone. Have you forgotten how much Gimenez was struggling when he was sent down??

Neither Amed (defensively) or Andres (offensively) was doing well at the time Andres was sent to AAA. Part of Amed's troubles could be attributed to lack of reps in CF during spring training. That is something that could be corrected & dealt with during an entire off-season of work.

There was 1 item very clear at that point.... Amed was the best option all around option at SS once it was decided Andres needed more time in AAA.
As the season progresses, that becomes less and less the case.

I am not looking for Rosario to have an inside track to CF over Straw. If Straw is the better player in CF thru Spring Training 2022, so be it. Start him & play him in CF. I feel it is short-sighted to count on Straw alone and not have some other options in case of injury or poor performance.

This team needs a boatload of roster space to protect players come mid-November.. If guys like Zimmer/ Mercado/ Daniel Johnson haven't seized the opportunity in front of them, a handful of prospects (like Palacios/ Valera/ others) will grab away those roster spots and attempt to take advantage of the chances in front of them..
--------------------------------------------
Another point I struggle to grasp in your argument against Amed: Why are you so against him as a multi-position back up next season??
This team/ house is being renovated on the fly & it is still a .500 group. Good overall players are needed as items progress. Amed might not have a role in 2024 or beyond but he certainly has a role thru 2022..

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I expect Amed to be dealt in the offseason. His defense is bad and the move to Straw seems to be a sign they are looking defense first up the middle.