Moves the Indians should make for the 2nd half

[CDAV45]

CDAV; Generally in line with your comments except that Chicago weathered two significant injuries for 4 months (Jimenez and Robert) yet still remained comfortably ahead of the Tribe. I just don’t see the Indians on the same level as the Chisox this season even if Bieber and Civale were healthy.

We were 1 game behind them until our top 3 SP went down with injuries. As things stand now, I don't see Cleveland on the same level offensively, but I think we can pitch with them and might even have a slight advantage when all things are considered. Especially when we have the youngest starting staff in baseball with quality depth piling up fast. I also think that any of Morris, Battenfield, Pilkington, Cantillo, or Burns could bust onto the scene and make an impact at some point next season.

I've mentioned this before, but I can't help but wonder if Bieber, Civale, and Plesac hadn't went down with injury would they have approached the deadline differently? Would they have pulled of a trade for a corner OF bat?

Irregardless of what may or may not have happened, I feel very confident that this will be a great offseason for us Guardian fans and this lineup will be vastly improved in 22.

 

[Alabuckeye]

I have some confidence also that 22 is going to be a huge step forward

 

[CATS44]

Our rotation has been handling good offense for years.

Pitching is still the name of the game, and the Indians have successfully leaned on pitching to win a lot of games over the last nine years.

You can worry about Chicago's offense. Chicago better be worried about our pitching.

The FO will address our offense in the off season.

 

[DCTribefan]

Our rotation has been handling good offense for years.

Pitching is still the name of the game, and the Indians have successfully leaned on pitching to win a lot of games over the last nine years.

You can worry about Chicago's offense. Chicago better be worried about our pitching.

The FO will address our offense in the off season.

Hope you’re right but your confidence borders on arrogance. If you don’t plainly see the White Sox as a better team in the immediate future, you’re in for some big disappointment.

 

[buzzdog]

What I see looking forward is that our pitching depth seems to have a chance to be at an elite level as an asset. The injuries to our starters really screwed up this season but the innings and experience it gave to our young prospects could be a real blessing for next year.

I think we'll have so much pitching talent and depth on the roster that we'll have a chance to convert some of it into trade value that can fill other roster holes, wherever they end up materializing, which no doubt would be in the form of hitting talent wherever it becomes available.

I think next season is going to be very interesting.

 

[CDAV45]

Our rotation has been handling good offense for years.

Pitching is still the name of the game, and the Indians have successfully leaned on pitching to win a lot of games over the last nine years.

You can worry about Chicago's offense. Chicago better be worried about our pitching.

The FO will address our offense in the off season.

Can't win without good pitching, but guess what. You can't win without a good offense either. I don't see how one is more valuable than the other. One being better than the other can offset some shortcomings, but the teams that win have some balance.

I agree that the FO will address the offense after this season. You have any suggestions or inclinations CATS?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

What the Indians need is a season like the White Sox are having where all their starters stay healthy. This year we had three starters go down for extended periods of time. And not just ANY starters - it was 1, 2, and 3, with 1 being the reigning Cy Young.

There was also the year where Kluber got his arm broken by a line drive, CC was diagnosed with cancer, and Clevinger strained a back muscle or something.

Last year was only 60 games and nobody got hurt. We went 35-25.

If the Guards can get 28-30 starts out of Bieber, Civale, Plesac, McKenzie, and Quantrill next year with Morgan, Allen, or Morris picking up the last 10-20, this team could compete for the Central.

 

[xmasbuck]

What the Indians need is a season like the White Sox are having where all their starters stay healthy. This year we had three starters go down for extended periods of time. And not just ANY starters - it was 1, 2, and 3, with 1 being the reigning Cy Young.

There was also the year where Kluber got his arm broken by a line drive, CC was diagnosed with cancer, and Clevinger strained a back muscle or something.

Last year was only 60 games and nobody got hurt. We went 35-25.

If the Guards can get 28-30 starts out of Bieber, Civale, Plesac, McKenzie, and Quantrill next year with Morgan, Allen, or Morris picking up the last 10-20, this team could compete for the Central.

every team in the bigs would like to get 150 starts from their main 5 - it doesnt happen that way

 

[Steve_424]

So many posts about the offense, which isn't the problem, although improvement would certainly help.

The problem is run prevention.

Last year we gave up four runs or less in 70% of our games. Our winning percentage in those games was 70%.

Thru June 21st this year we played 70 games. We allowed four runs or less in 64% of those games. We won 76% of those games.

But since Civale went down we have given up four runs or less only 47% of the time, and we have won 63% of those games.

Over the last two seasons, with an anemic offense, we have won over 70% of the games in which we gave up four runs or less.

Had we not lost Civale and Bieber and maintained what the staff had done over a long stretch...a reasonable expectation...we would have between 73-75 wins, and we would be in a dead heat with Chicago or holding the lead for the first WC.

When we look forward to next year, remember that. A healthy rotation with the addition of Quantrill puts us in a very strong position, even if we don't add anything to the offense, outside of Straw.

I agree with these points but would add the bullpen has been a significant issue in the 2nd half. Clase is the only one you can really fully trust in tight spots.

Looking toward 2022, it's a big question mark for me. Clase is legit and I think Sandlin is too (assuming he is healthy) but beyond that there's not much locked in. They need to find at least one consistent late-inning arm this winter IMO.

 

[Alabuckeye]

every team in the bigs would like to get 150 starts from their main 5 - it doesnt happen that way

Yet isn't this exactly what is happening with the ChiSox this year? Which is part of the discussion re: their status versus our status.

I'll take Chicago's lineup any day over ours. I'll ride with our pitching staff next year over theirs. Can we upgrade our lineup to shrink the gap between the two? That's one factor to watch.

 

[CATS44]

Hope you’re right but your confidence borders on arrogance. If you don’t plainly see the White Sox as a better team in the immediate future, you’re in for some big disappointment.

With what we have on the roster right now behind our rotation, where would we be had the rotation stayed healthy?

Where would Chicago be right now if it had lost 30 starts from its top three SPs, even if its offense had stayed totally healthy?

The biggest single issue in a season for any team is the health of its pitching staff, esp its rotation.

Over the last two seasons with our anemic offense, what is our head to head record vs Chicago?

Folks who insist that offense is an equal part of a recipe for winning as pitching...and I mean this kindly...don't understand baseball. The winning formula has always been pitching-pitching-pitching-defense-offense.

The FO will address the offense in the off season.

 

[xmasbuck]

yep - theyve been lucky on the pitching front so far - i think rodon is just now missing a few starts

i'll move the goalposts a bit and point out theyve had 3 players with ops+ of 850 or better miss significant amounts of time - it matters

not sure what their injury situation was last season, but our record indicates we werent any better (or worse) than than sox

 

[BimboColesHair]

Lynn is a free agent, about to turn 35.

Rodon is a free agent approaching 30, has a history of being very fragile, and was a consistent 4+ ERA guy prior to this season.

Kuechel is owed 18 million guaranteed in his age 34 season and is declining (and no one is taking that deal without the Sox paying a portion of his salary or including a good prospect).

The Chi Sox better hope Kopech is ready to start next season or it will be Giolito, Cease, and some dumpster dives with how much they're paying their offense.

If you'd take their pitching future over ours you're being very short-sighted.

 

[mopete12]

Lynn is a free agent, about to turn 35.

Rodon is a free agent approaching 30, has a history of being very fragile, and was a consistent 4+ ERA guy prior to this season.

Kuechel is owed 18 million guaranteed in his age 34 season and is declining (and no one is taking that deal without the Sox paying a portion of his salary or including a good prospect).

The Chi Sox better hope Kopech is ready to start next season or it will be Giolito, Cease, and some dumpster dives with how much they're paying their offense.

If you'd take their pitching future over ours you're being very short-sighted.

FYI, Lynn signed an extension a month or two ago. He’s signed for the next two years and club option for 2024.

 

[sportscoach]

Lynn is a free agent, about to turn 35.

Rodon is a free agent approaching 30, has a history of being very fragile, and was a consistent 4+ ERA guy prior to this season.

Kuechel is owed 18 million guaranteed in his age 34 season and is declining (and no one is taking that deal without the Sox paying a portion of his salary or including a good prospect).

The Chi Sox better hope Kopech is ready to start next season or it will be Giolito, Cease, and some dumpster dives with how much they're paying their offense.

If you'd take their pitching future over ours you're being very short-sighted.

White Sox sign Lance Lynn to two-year, $38 million extension with club option for 2024

The veteran right-hander avoids free agency and will stay in Chicago.

www.google.com

Lynn signed an extension...

Now when it comes to actual talent going forward the Indians have them beat, but the Soxs have more experience. You have to put the starting staffs on paper pretty close to each other, one that has a possible age regression and one that should have progression.

What I am saying is in 22, I don't see a ton of on the field difference the pitching staffs production wise but after that Indians definitely have the advantage...