Official CLE Midseason Prospect Rankings

[DickyLeftridge]

I have a list.. and will share in the next few days.. it will include the criteria that may be considered "..reasonable and logical for inclusion / exclusion of some of the prospects..." Example.. How can Hunter Gaddis not get some love?.. does anyone in the Indians system have the same kind of down hill delivery that SMACKS of success at the highest level today?.. (btw.. Gaddis doesn't make the top twenty.. but, it's a consideration)..

Thanks for asking..

Went back and saw you posted a Top 10. Look forward to the list and analysis.

 

[DCTribefan]

We just missed each other. I graduated from BG in 1975. Never much into hockey, but went to the football and many basketball games while I was there.

I loved BGSU hockey during my college days there. A 1978 graduate, I missed the BGSU hockey glory days in the early 80s. I also knew Orel Hershiser during his time at BG. Not surprisingly, he was an great athlete who excelled in hockey in addition to baseball.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

We just missed each other. I graduated from BG in 1975. Never much into hockey, but went to the football and many basketball games while I was there.

Who were Cornelius Cash and Jeff Montgomery?

 

[daddywags]

Who were Cornelius Cash and Jeff Montgomery?

Man, I loved watching Montgomery.

 

[hockeyjohn]

I loved BGSU hockey during my college days there. A 1978 graduate, I missed the BGSU hockey glory days in the early 80s. I also knew Orel Hershiser during his time at BG. Not surprisingly, he was an great athlete who excelled in hockey in addition to baseball.

I was in Lake Placid when Bowling Green won the 1984 Division 1 National Championship in four overtimes. That is still the highlight of my sports fandom.

 

[xmasbuck]

Who were Cornelius Cash and Jeff Montgomery?

who was Nate Thurmond?

 

[hockeyjohn]

Who were Ken Morrow and Mark Wells?

 

[daddywags]

who was Nate Thurmond?

Definitely before my time. I was there with Dave Wottle though.

 

[xmasbuck]

Who were Ken Morrow and Mark Wells?

yacht payments for an Orel surgeon?
-

 

[Gson]

I have a list.. and will share in the next few days.. it will include the criteria that may be considered "..reasonable and logical for inclusion / exclusion of some of the prospects..." Example.. How can Hunter Gaddis not get some love?.. does anyone in the Indians system have the same kind of down hill delivery that SMACKS of success at the highest level today?.. (btw.. Gaddis doesn't make the top twenty.. but, it's a consideration)..

Thanks for asking..

For clarification... the list that was posted earlier in this thread was a response to ajz asking for the estimated time of arrival of the prospects listed.. I took the listing he supplied and added the ETA dates...

 

[petes999]

Here you go (part I)...

Just so I could compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges first, I separated the two groups (and then tried to slot them in together).

Batting
1) Arias (2) – He has struggled early at AAA but he is just 21 years old and jumped from A+ ball in 19 where he it .300. If you look at last 28 games, he is hitting .300 and .830 OPS for a shortstop. For comparison, Gimenez is .260/.794 in AAA and is a year older.
2) Freeman (3) – at 22 years old and AA, he is hitting .320 and .839. He is still playing mostly at SS and could be our SS over Ahmed if it wasn’t for Gimenez and Arias. So a slight down grade from Arias due to fielding and a bit older.
3) Naylor (4) – You start to split hairs w Valera, Martinez and Tena at this point but looking at his splits, you can get excited about the future as a 21 year old in AA and hitting .280/.877 in last 28 days. He may be starting to figure it out.
4) Rochhio (5) – He struggled in May due to being 20 year old in high A, yet in June and July, he has been .310/.850 hitter. At this pace, I would put them above Valera come year-and if he doesn’t kick it into gear. Right now 4-7 are interchangeable if you squint your eyes one way or another.
5) Martinez (6)– Alright, I will buy the hype. Yet, brought him down a few notches due to being so low level and due to playing more 2B than SS … and only Valdes and Gabriel at low-A to block him from being more at SS. Yet, a 19 year old at Low A hitting .296/.852 with a 6 ft frame for more power as he ages.
6) Valera (8) – A disappointment as he had a lot of hype. I thought he was about to figure it out in June with .316/.975 average/ops. Yet, then has tanked again in July. However, with a 20 year old in High A with injury past (limiting experience), I am not selling quite yet as he is still just 19 when most HS players start their first full year.
7) Tena (9) – For all the excitement of Martinez being 19 in low A, Tena has almost matched him as a 20 year old in High A (a bit less power but more games at SS than Martinez splitting with Rochhio). Tena - .294/.790 vs Martinez - .296/.839 … don’t see how you can slip him much lower than Martinez.
8) Jones (12) – Sorry but he is slipping (more quickly just due to our risers in Arias. Rochhio, Martinez and Tena who play premier positions). I know going from A+ to AAA is a challenge, one that Arias has figured out. Jones may just be putting too much pressure on himself and feels blocked (going to OF) with Ramirez extension talks this winter. And, if he shifts off third, he takes a hit for moving to a non-premium position.
9) Miller (14) – You may say why so high when he struggled at majors? This kids has hit at every level and needs time for development. He is back to over .300 in the minors. Really difference in him and Freeman is Freeman is better at SS, if we needed him there.
10) Bracho (17) – His splits this year as 20 year old in High A look terrible, but this was a kid who in Arz at 18 (2019) hit .300/1.000 and skipped High-rookie (MV just 8 games in 19) and low-A. So Indians see something that we can’t see yet.
11) Lavastida (18) – I am going in on him here due to the premium position and he can hit … even at 22 at High-A, it is) – He should be higher but hard to judge with 2 years off. However, here is a college kid in 2nd year, hitting .293/.858. He turned it up in July (after the rust?) for .328/.956 in July. And in his first year, he went to LC (low A) and hit .300/.742 out of college – not even looking at his .400+/1.000+ that he hit in each of Ariz and MV. Don’t know if he will be counted on next year but the dude can hit. If he learns the OF, he creates his own path. Only negative is he is 24 and thus not as high as the other kids I listed higher (like Freeman at 22 in AA also)
12) Halpin (23) – What I liked about last year’s draft is saving some money and finding a gem of upside HS kid. He has turned it on by going to low A (over Greene). He was 76th prospect in draft and his YTD numbers don’t look that impressive unless you look at last 7 games – 12 for 34 .357 average. Okay it may be skewed by who they have played. But, getting promoted right out of HS with really no ball last year is great.
13) Greene (24) – I don’t really want to split hairs here with Halpin and Greene as Greene has also done well in Rookie ball with .360/1.073. And they both have been doing LF/CF but Halpin had a 92mph fastball so can probably do right or wherever in the outfield, so slightly ahead.
14) Noel (25) – It is almost an embarrassment of riches as I did leave him off my list initially but added him back in as it wouldn’t be a proper list without a slugging 1st baseman. And, Greene and Halpin are just slightly higher than him due to playing CF but can easily jump them due to his power.
15) Tolentino (29) – With all the hype others are getting, he is lost in shuffle but .300/.921 for a few games in Rookie ball isn’t bad and 101st prospect last year for his class. Poor Carson Tucker cannot even make the top 26 in my list even being a 1st round selection.
16) Diaz (30) – Almost left him off my list, but he is having a good year hitting at a premium position. We should be promoting him and Lavastida.
17) Tucker (31) – Just to put him on the list somewhere … I guess Indians learned not to draft projectable SS in the first round or two anymore. Why spend $2 million, when you can spend $1.2 or so and get 2 in Int FA each year who project better.

Left off – Latin players of Rodriquez, Sanquintin Delgado, Ramirez, Planez, …

 

[petes999]

Part II -
Pitching – Harder to figure out due to all the injuries and mass promotions cleared out the top-middle portion of list in Mejia, Hentges, Clase, Sandlin, ect. of the list. Yet, with the 18-21 drafts, they loaded up on top end talent (rank in draft class) – Williams (31), Mace (45), Nizhazy (56), Webb, Burns (28), Allen (46), Espino (23), Wolf (36), Hankins (21), Torres (47) along with

1) Espino (1) – You know the hype but as Bimbo I think said, he tries for Ks versus conserving his bullets with no one on to go further. Yet, still in first year pitching out of HS, he is going 4-5 innings.
2) Hankins (7) – Will be like Valera until he is healthy again as he hasn’t pitched much for people to drool over. Yet, he had some good numbers at MV at 19 and did pitch for USA national team. Has the pedigree to succeed next year when healthy again.
3) Burns (10) -- 22 years old with 92-97 mph FB and in High A (first year out of college) with good results so far after 3 solid years at Auburn. BA against is .210-.220 consistently per month for 1.12 WHIP.
4) Williams (11) – He is about to turn 22 and has 100 mph fastball. He can value anywhere from 2-4 in my list but for me, I would like to see consistency first and only reason I put Burns up. Yet, I did look at his college stats and what popped was how his BB dropped this year and it was consistent the last few starts with 80-100 pitches.
5) Allen Jr (13) – He is 22 and had similar results to Burns before getting promoted. I think he has better offspeed stuff than Burns but Burns will be better long-term after the Indians get done with him.
6) Torres (15) – Here is a 20 year old who skipped from Rookie ball to Low-A due to Tommy John. His year-to-day numbers suck … yet look at his 28 day numbers (3 starts and one 2/3 inning game) – teams are only hitting .157 against him. He is now up to 80 pitches and 5 innings in last start.
7) Cantillo (16) – Right now, you start guessing based on prior year number. But, 19 at Low/High A and he dominated low A with a .87 WHIP and 12 K per 9. Only issue is a low 90s fastball that may become more hittable at higher levels.
8) Wolf (19) – A 94 mph fastball that touches 97 and he is only 20 (so maybe some upside compared to a Williams or Burns who are 2 year older). Unlike Torres, he hasn’t found his rhythm even in last few starts.
9) Mace (20) – 4 pitch mix hitting up to 96 has upside in our system
10) Nikhazy (21) – I tend to discount soft throwing lefties but he can rocket up like Allen did this year.
11) Morris (22) – If his fastball is truly up to 96 (at least touching after 3 games back) and has a .75 WHIP, he can move up this list fast. A bit older at 24 in AA but he is my sleeper, out of all these injured players. He has had 2 great starts in AA with .75 WHIP … let’s see if he can continue
12) Perez (26) – Hard throwing lefty that can also get righties out and go multiple innings. I don’t know if he really failed as a starter versus just needing a quicker path to the majors. Well he found it.
13) Webb (27) - Another one that I forgot about and had to add in. Hopefully, a Plesac 2.0 .... injury that let him fall to us later on.
14) Gaddis (28) – At 23 in High A, he is having a good year. However, Morris at 24 in AA just jumps him due to about ready to break out at AA
15) Curry (32) – He numbers look good; however, he is another soft-throwing Plutko/Morgan type that will be behind others until he gets closer.

When they say that there was a lack of pitching in our system. I can see it at the top with promotion of McK and Clase. However, there is plenty of depth in pitching as you can make the case of adding a few relievers as well in Miko, Pinto and Mota but left off due to our upside in starters. And, in next few years, I see things evening out as some hitters will be promoted soon (like pitching over past 2 years) -- Arias, Jones, Freeman, etc.

 

[Martyinnewyork]

Just a minor correction. Lavastida is 22.

 

[mopete12]

Here you go (part I)...

Just so I could compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges first, I separated the two groups (and then tried to slot them in together).

Batting
1) Arias (2) – He has struggled early at AAA but he is just 21 years old and jumped from A+ ball in 19 where he it .300. If you look at last 28 games, he is hitting .300 and .830 OPS for a shortstop. For comparison, Gimenez is .260/.794 in AAA and is a year older.
2) Freeman (3) – at 22 years old and AA, he is hitting .320 and .839. He is still playing mostly at SS and could be our SS over Ahmed if it wasn’t for Gimenez and Arias. So a slight down grade from Arias due to fielding and a bit older.
3) Naylor (4) – You start to split hairs w Valera, Martinez and Tena at this point but looking at his splits, you can get excited about the future as a 21 year old in AA and hitting .280/.877 in last 28 days. He may be starting to figure it out.
4) Rochhio (5) – He struggled in May due to being 20 year old in high A, yet in June and July, he has been .310/.850 hitter. At this pace, I would put them above Valera come year-and if he doesn’t kick it into gear. Right now 4-7 are interchangeable if you squint your eyes one way or another.
5) Martinez (6)– Alright, I will buy the hype. Yet, brought him down a few notches due to being so low level and due to playing more 2B than SS … and only Valdes and Gabriel at low-A to block him from being more at SS. Yet, a 19 year old at Low A hitting .296/.852 with a 6 ft frame for more power as he ages.
6) Valera (8) – A disappointment as he had a lot of hype. I thought he was about to figure it out in June with .316/.975 average/ops. Yet, then has tanked again in July. However, with a 20 year old in High A with injury past (limiting experience), I am not selling quite yet as he is still just 19 when most HS players start their first full year.
7) Tena (9) – For all the excitement of Martinez being 19 in low A, Tena has almost matched him as a 20 year old in High A (a bit less power but more games at SS than Martinez splitting with Rochhio). Tena - .294/.790 vs Martinez - .296/.839 … don’t see how you can slip him much lower than Martinez.
8) Jones (12) – Sorry but he is slipping (more quickly just due to our risers in Arias. Rochhio, Martinez and Tena who play premier positions). I know going from A+ to AAA is a challenge, one that Arias has figured out. Jones may just be putting too much pressure on himself and feels blocked (going to OF) with Ramirez extension talks this winter. And, if he shifts off third, he takes a hit for moving to a non-premium position.
9) Miller (14) – You may say why so high when he struggled at majors? This kids has hit at every level and needs time for development. He is back to over .300 in the minors. Really difference in him and Freeman is Freeman is better at SS, if we needed him there.
10) Bracho (17) – His splits this year as 20 year old in High A look terrible, but this was a kid who in Arz at 18 (2019) hit .300/1.000 and skipped High-rookie (MV just 8 games in 19) and low-A. So Indians see something that we can’t see yet.
11) Lavastida (18) – I am going in on him here due to the premium position and he can hit … even at 22 at High-A, it is) – He should be higher but hard to judge with 2 years off. However, here is a college kid in 2nd year, hitting .293/.858. He turned it up in July (after the rust?) for .328/.956 in July. And in his first year, he went to LC (low A) and hit .300/.742 out of college – not even looking at his .400+/1.000+ that he hit in each of Ariz and MV. Don’t know if he will be counted on next year but the dude can hit. If he learns the OF, he creates his own path. Only negative is he is 24 and thus not as high as the other kids I listed higher (like Freeman at 22 in AA also)
12) Halpin (23) – What I liked about last year’s draft is saving some money and finding a gem of upside HS kid. He has turned it on by going to low A (over Greene). He was 76th prospect in draft and his YTD numbers don’t look that impressive unless you look at last 7 games – 12 for 34 .357 average. Okay it may be skewed by who they have played. But, getting promoted right out of HS with really no ball last year is great.
13) Greene (24) – I don’t really want to split hairs here with Halpin and Greene as Greene has also done well in Rookie ball with .360/1.073. And they both have been doing LF/CF but Halpin had a 92mph fastball so can probably do right or wherever in the outfield, so slightly ahead.
14) Noel (25) – It is almost an embarrassment of riches as I did leave him off my list initially but added him back in as it wouldn’t be a proper list without a slugging 1st baseman. And, Greene and Halpin are just slightly higher than him due to playing CF but can easily jump them due to his power.
15) Tolentino (29) – With all the hype others are getting, he is lost in shuffle but .300/.921 for a few games in Rookie ball isn’t bad and 101st prospect last year for his class. Poor Carson Tucker cannot even make the top 26 in my list even being a 1st round selection.
16) Diaz (30) – Almost left him off my list, but he is having a good year hitting at a premium position. We should be promoting him and Lavastida.
17) Tucker (31) – Just to put him on the list somewhere … I guess Indians learned not to draft projectable SS in the first round or two anymore. Why spend $2 million, when you can spend $1.2 or so and get 2 in Int FA each year who project better.

Left off – Latin players of Rodriquez, Sanquintin Delgado, Ramirez, Planez, …

FYI - Valera still has an .845 OPS in July. Batting average is low but he’s walking a ton and still hitting.

 

[petes999]

FYI - Valera still has an .845 OPS in July. Batting average is low but he’s walking a ton and still hitting.

Just was looking at June/July ... .316/.975 to .216/.845 .... 845 ain’t bad but I tend to discount walks in minors as is it the batter’s eye or just bad pitching. I still think he will break through. Others are just already there.

Ranking our prospects is hard. Even on pitching, I should have added Vargas towards the end. Yet, he will come back mid-next season with 2 years of options (assume he used one this yr for injury) and 4 levels to progress. Just see him as a bit better Mejia (reliever due to options) and too far to project that far right now. I also left off Moss as I see him as a possible cut candidate to protect some hitters and Morris this winter.

Then what to do with Benson/Oscar? Too early for me to buy Benson again. Another 2 months of consistency and he becomes an option next year. Then what to do with Oscar? Close as is Benson but doesn’t walk enough. But, a big dude who can smash but cooled a bit in Columbus so far. Saw him try to win one in Akron. Had a big night and needed just a run or two in bot of 9th. Whiffed bad on 2 strikes with bases loaded trying for grand slam when he just needed a hit to win it.