Pitching

[Derek]

Tough to really rank Clevinger when he's only pitched one full season. Being able to eat innings is valuable, and Clev has only gone over 126 innings once.

He's probably right around 15 though, but I wouldn't argue much if you wanted to move him up or down a little.

 

[LL3]

Tough to really rank Clevinger when he's only pitched one full season. Being able to eat innings is valuable, and Clev has only gone over 126 innings once.

He's probably right around 15 though, but I wouldn't argue much if you wanted to move him up or down a little.

Agree -- Clev cannot stay on the field. It could be bad luck, but even before the recent episode in Chicago, there was plenty of scuttlebutt as to Clev's attitude, behaviors and how it may or may not have affected his preparation.

He has electric stuff, but for all his potential and nice assortment of excellent outings, there is no doubt in my mind that Bauer is far more valuable as a pitcher.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The Braves are 18-12 but their starting pitching situation is dire. They have used 10 starters so far. Hamels and Soroka are on the 60-day IL. Toussaint has an ERA of 5.65. Kyle Wright, also with four starts, is at 7.52. Josh Tomlin has allowed 8 earned runs in his last 8.1 innings.

If the Indians are inclined to trade Clevinger the Braves would be an ideal trade partner. They have a huge need, they're in the National League, they have a chance to go to the World Series this year. If the Indians plan to move Clevinger after this season they might as well do it now and get a better return. Whover gets him will have him for three more playoff runs before he hits free agency. That should be worth a lot.

They should be able to get a similar return to what they got for Bauer.

By the way, Tampa Bay has the second best record in the A.L. and the highest ranked farm system in baseball and it's not that close. Talk about a franchise with a tremendous future.

The Indians are up to 7th in the Fangraphs rankings, so that's encouraging especially when you consider all the young pitching they already have at the major league level.

2020 Top Prospects | THE BOARD | FanGraphs

Compreshensive MLB prospect rankings in a sortable, easy-to-read, feature-rich table.

www.fangraphs.com

 

[LL3]

A little more Law (from today's chat):

1:17
Love the scouting articles. With respect to Triston McKenzie, you had him ranked high as 19. Can you ballpark where he'd fall if you set the rankings again? And what's his ceiling?

Keith Law
1:18
That guy we saw on Saturday would be back in the top 20 again. He might be an ace.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Fangraphs ranks starting pitchers using peripheral ERA, which I won't get into. At this point they have Bieber ranked 3rd behind Kershaw and deGrom. Plesac and Civale are ranked 9th and 12th, respectively, ahead of Blake Snell, Stephen Strasburg, and Gerrit Cole. Pretty impressive.

Unfortunately, Dobnak and Maeda of the Twins are 6th and 8th.

Why I Targeted Randy Dobnak Back In October

and now recommending Brett Anderson.

fantasy.fangraphs.com

 

[Gson]

The Braves are 18-12 but their starting pitching situation is dire. They have used 10 starters so far. Hamels and Soroka are on the 60-day IL. Toussaint has an ERA of 5.65. Kyle Wright, also with four starts, is at 7.52. Josh Tomlin has allowed 8 earned runs in his last 8.1 innings.

If the Indians are inclined to trade Clevinger the Braves would be an ideal trade partner. They have a huge need, they're in the National League, they have a chance to go to the World Series this year. If the Indians plan to move Clevinger after this season they might as well do it now and get a better return. Whover gets him will have him for three more playoff runs before he hits free agency. That should be worth a lot.

They should be able to get a similar return to what they got for Bauer.

By the way, Tampa Bay has the second best record in the A.L. and the highest ranked farm system in baseball and it's not that close. Talk about a franchise with a tremendous future.

The Indians are up to 7th in the Fangraphs rankings, so that's encouraging especially when you consider all the young pitching they already have at the major league level.

2020 Top Prospects | THE BOARD | FanGraphs

Compreshensive MLB prospect rankings in a sortable, easy-to-read, feature-rich table.

www.fangraphs.com

Anthopolous was quoted at the Braves website as targeting starting pitching as the Braves # 1 priority.. In two separate articles, "weird" and "expensive" might be how a deal for clevinger is being described..

Here are the two links:
( https://www.talkingchop.com/2020/8/...ould-focus-on-controllable-starters-in-trades & https://tomahawktake.com/2020/08/19/atlanta-braves-look-cleveland-starting-pitching-help/ )

The comments section of the first article has some interesting insight..around the 30th comment, someone named "haveasnitkers" presumes clevinger now and bauer later.. Another, "chicagobullies" says go for plesac due to his upside and lower cost..

The Braves have a solid to spectacular farm system.. loaded with a lot of gems.. and this is after the large number of kids already on the Braves ML roster. The Braves have at least two catchers, two OF'ers and a bunch of SP candidates that would be very interesting..

The biggest caveat to dealing with the Braves..so many of their prospects turn to suspects when the brightest lights are beaming.. (see: Andy Marte) A deal for three,, a C, an OF'er and an SP would be a fair return for Clevinger.. the question becomes.. which ones from:

Pache OF
Waters OF

Langeliers C
Contreras C

Wilson SP
Muller SP
Tarnok SP
Weigel SP

Thoughts?

 

[sportscoach]

Anthopolous was quoted at the Braves website as targeting starting pitching as the Braves # 1 priority.. In two separate articles, "weird" and "expensive" might be how a deal for clevinger is being described..

Here are the two links:
( https://www.talkingchop.com/2020/8/...ould-focus-on-controllable-starters-in-trades & https://tomahawktake.com/2020/08/19/atlanta-braves-look-cleveland-starting-pitching-help/ )

The comments section of the first article has some interesting insight..around the 30th comment, someone named "haveasnitkers" presumes clevinger now and bauer later.. Another, "chicagobullies" says go for plesac due to his upside and lower cost..

The Braves have a solid to spectacular farm system.. loaded with a lot of gems.. and this is after the large number of kids already on the Braves ML roster. The Braves have at least two catchers, two OF'ers and a bunch of SP candidates that would be very interesting..

The biggest caveat to dealing with the Braves..so many of their prospects turn to suspects when the brightest lights are beaming.. (see: Andy Marte) A deal for three,, a C, an OF'er and an SP would be a fair return for Clevinger.. the question becomes.. which ones from:

Pache OF
Waters OF

Langeliers C
Contreras C

Wilson SP
Muller SP
Tarnok SP
Weigel SP

Thoughts?

I would say it would be Waters, Langeliers, then Weigel (maybe try to get Walker as well?)

But if we get Waters and Langeliers, my bet is on a lower pitching prospect. But both of those guys would be the guys to get in my mind with a deal from the Braves.

 

[Gson]

I would say it would be Waters, Langeliers, then Weigel (maybe try to get Walker as well?)

But if we get Waters and Langeliers, my bet is on a lower pitching prospect. But both of those guys would be the guys to get in my mind with a deal from the Braves.

btw.. the Braves have other prospects and current ML'ers that might be just as interesting as their prospects.. The stories presented, however, were restrained to "Brave's prospects for other ML team's SP's".. Thoughts?..

 

[sportscoach]

btw.. the Braves have other prospects and current ML'ers that might be just as interesting as their prospects.. The stories presented, however, were restrained to "Brave's prospects for other ML team's SP's".. Thoughts?..

Cleveland needs a bat now, plus 2-3 prospects in a deal for Clev in a sense. To me the priority from the Braves actually would be Langeliers, so something of a Markasis plus Langeliers and a couple more prospects, would be a nice move in my mind if the prospects make sense

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Phil Maton has been incredible. In 10.2 innings he's allowed one earned run, walked none, and struck out 14. Considering we got him for practically nothing (international bonus money) this looks like another Indians steal. The coaching staff has turned him around 180 degrees from the basket case he was in San Diego.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The other young reliever sneaking up under the radar is Cam Hill. In 12 appearances Hill has had one bad outing. On August 11 he gave up four runs in 0.2 innings to the Cubs.

In his other 11 appearances he's pitched 12.0 innings, allowed 3 hits, 2 walks, one run, and struck out 11. Other than that one game he's been dominating in his first big league season.

“I mean, his dedication and heart is second to none. That’s why I took such a liking to him,” Clevinger said of Cleveland’s 17th-round draft choice in 2014. “It just clicked. I see a lot of myself in him and just that want and that drive where it’s not about other reasons... He was rehabbing his Tommy John after like seven months and the kid’s throwing 96 (mph) with a 12-6 curveball, 80 mph,” Clevinger said. “I was like, ‘I need him in our bullpen now.’ I just remember thinking that the second I saw him out there (before), he wasn’t even close to being ready. So that just shows his work ethic.”

Indians notes: Reliever Cam Hill has a roster spot and a big fan in Mike Clevinger

CLEVELAND — For many, relief pitcher Cam Hill was a surprise addition to the Indians’ 30-man Opening Day roster. Not to starter Mike Clevinger.

chroniclet.com

 

[sportscoach]

The other young reliever sneaking up under the radar is Cam Hill. In 12 appearances Hill has had one bad outing. On August 11 he gave up four runs in 0.2 innings to the Cubs.

In his other 11 appearances he's pitched 12.0 innings, allowed 3 hits, 2 walks, one run, and struck out 11. Other than that one game he's been dominating in his first big league season.

“I mean, his dedication and heart is second to none. That’s why I took such a liking to him,” Clevinger said of Cleveland’s 17th-round draft choice in 2014. “It just clicked. I see a lot of myself in him and just that want and that drive where it’s not about other reasons... He was rehabbing his Tommy John after like seven months and the kid’s throwing 96 (mph) with a 12-6 curveball, 80 mph,” Clevinger said. “I was like, ‘I need him in our bullpen now.’ I just remember thinking that the second I saw him out there (before), he wasn’t even close to being ready. So that just shows his work ethic.”

Indians notes: Reliever Cam Hill has a roster spot and a big fan in Mike Clevinger

CLEVELAND — For many, relief pitcher Cam Hill was a surprise addition to the Indians’ 30-man Opening Day roster. Not to starter Mike Clevinger.

chroniclet.com

He would have been in our relief core a few years back if not for the injury. I am not surprised by him at all.

 

[CDAV45]

Agree -- Clev cannot stay on the field. It could be bad luck, but even before the recent episode in Chicago, there was plenty of scuttlebutt as to Clev's attitude, behaviors and how it may or may not have affected his preparation.

He has electric stuff, but for all his potential and nice assortment of excellent outings, there is no doubt in my mind that Bauer is far more valuable as a pitcher.

I respectfully disagree. Bauer at the time of his trade was not nearly as valuable as Clevinger is now. When you factor in his lack of control, personality offsets, contract, and performance, Sunshine is almost as valuable as it gets. He's a TOR SP and probably closer to the 10th best SP than the 15th. Health concerns be damned.

 

[petes999]

I respectfully disagree. Bauer at the time of his trade was not nearly as valuable as Clevinger is now. When you factor in his lack of control, personality offsets, contract, and performance, Sunshine is almost as valuable as it gets. He's a TOR SP and probably closer to the 10th best SP than the 15th. Health concerns be damned.

Remember too ... Bauer always had the stuff like Clevinger to be good if not great like this year. However, Bauer was never below a 4 ERA till 2018 (great season at 2.21 ERA). But, then he flipped back up to 3.78 ERA when we traded him. Clevinger has been consistently around 3.00 ERA, year-in and year-out. You may not get the great 2.13 ERA out of Clevinger that Bauer has this year. However, he is consistent where Bauer has issues between the ears (would you trust him in a major game?) After being traded, his ERA was 6+in 10 starts. Some of it may have been injury last year, but ... there comes a point where I rather have 3 ERA guy (as I can win with a decent line-up 8 out of 10 times) than a ??? guy.

 

[LL3]

I respectfully disagree. Bauer at the time of his trade was not nearly as valuable as Clevinger is now. When you factor in his lack of control, personality offsets, contract, and performance, Sunshine is almost as valuable as it gets. He's a TOR SP and probably closer to the 10th best SP than the 15th. Health concerns be damned.

I certainly respect your opinion too, but health concerns are not to be damned, they are real and meaningful. That said, I hope the Tribe gets a ton for him in a trade....injury concern will not matter at all afterward.