R.I.P Kobe Bryant

[JDailey23]

If anyone is going to be on the logo not named West, it HAS to be Jordan.
SMH

 

[Tlyons]

Is he going in early? I thought Duncan and Garnett in 2020 was his class, maybe one of the best HOF classes ever?

You are right.

My bad. Skimmed an article like a dummy. They're just waiving an election process so he can posthumously enter the Hall.

Thanks

 

[Steve_424]

1) Mark Cuban is ridiculous. Both for retiring his number & that statement.
2) Super Bowl hash lines....equally ridiculous
3) Retiring both numbers is RETARDED. People are so dumb when mourning.
4) Logo I support 100% and here is why:

Kobe Bryant, although you can dispute his place in history, is an all time great in his sport. Not an all star, not an up and comer, not labeled as solely a winner.....an all time great. This is the 1st sports death, of an all time great, that seemed so sudden and out of place. The guy was in the league 3 years ago and was extremely successful after playing; with a lot let to give IMO. He also looked to be on the verge of making female basketball players relevant. Jerry West means nothing to NBA players today....Kobe means everything. He played from the time I was in the 2nd grade until I was married. I grew up with him. So did many of these players. Hell some of them were born after he was drafted.

The NBA jumped the gun making West, 1-8 in the Finals. Making a true all time great like Kobe seems more appropriate. He has had significantly more of an impact than West did & to be fair, thats with the controversy and a few question marks.

I wouldnt think of it as replacing West, but simply updating the logo.

First and foremost, there's not a need to replace the logo. It's fine as is and it's well-known and well-recognized. But if you do change it, you can't model it after a guy who was credibly accused of rape. Hell, even if you don't consider that huge part of his legacy, what is the grounds for him to be the new logo over Jordan, who was better than Kobe and did more for the game? Hell, LeBron is/was better and has done more for the game IMO. I'm sorry he died, I get that people are hurting with it, but we can't do unreasonable things as a response to it. Name the ASG MVP after him, let the Lakers do what they're going to do, and let people remember him how they choose to.

 

[Huber.]

A logo should never consist of a single player. Modeling it after West was stupid mistake. The league should be bigger than individuals. But that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Steve_424]

Not sure where you get your account of the case, but both sides had holes.

She admitted to saying yes to sex at first, but then said no in the middle. Kobe's shirt had small amounts of her blood on it, suggesting the sex was at the very least rough. She was bent over a chair, most speculation is he stuck in her ass, thus her saying no. He asked after if he could cum on her face too, which is when he stopped.

Next day when she showed up for rape test her panties had the semen and pubic hair of a white man in it...yes they can tell. One of the big parts of the defense was she had sex right after with another man. There was vaginal tear, consistant with rape or rough sex.

She dropped the charges, but later settled for around 2.5 million.

Co-workers said she seemed ok and didnt notice her upset.

Those are the facts, I am guessing she did say no in the middle, thus the assault did happen, but make no mistake, there wasn't much seduction because she wanted to have sex with Kobe, but it seems something happened in the middle that she changed her mind, if it was the wrong hole, or she just changed her mind she does have that right, but made the case very difficult to win.

You're leaving out Kobe initially denying they even had sex and the examination being consistent with non-consensual sex. Her having sex with another man has nothing to do with her encounter with Kobe. Co-workers saying she seemed ok is meaningless - how many people commit suicide and nobody ever knew they were hurting? You also left out that his legal team leaked her name, which led to threats to her life that led to her not testifying and settling instead.

 

[ACisKING]

Breaking

The Knicks have vowed to go on a 24 game losing streak in honor of the late Kobe Bryant.

Figures we’d finally properly tank for the worst draft in recent memory.

 

[ACisKING]

As with most things in pro sports it's because of the market he played in. They are also waiving HoF rules to rush him into the HoF. People are pushing for Kobe to be the logo too.

It's a horrible tragedy amplified by being LA.

I'm not sure what rushing him to the hall does tbh.

Its knee jerk which I understand. I mean it's only been days since it happened so I get the high emotion.

I mean does Lebron get in early because he put thousands of kids through college?

Wasn’t Kobe eligible for the Hall of Fame this year anyway?

 

[brownsbuck6]

Good detailed reply, thanks. It's been a number of years, but those details sound correct from what I'm trying to remember now.

I think some of us will have to agree to disagree in this discussion because we're coming at this from different worldviews and perspectives. I'm a conservative Christian woman, so we learn to not be seductive, engage in premarital or adulterous sex, and to not follow men into secluded rooms alone (Billy Graham rule). The secular left views things from consent, victim perspective, etc. They are incompatible views. At the end of the day, this woman engaged in sex with a man she wasn't married to, and that's a moral wrong in the Judeo-Christian worldview. It's not something I can overlook given my convictions.

Bottom line is you're one of those who believe that your religious beliefs make you virtuous. It does not, and this shit doesn't belong on this forum or in this conversation. And that is me being kind about it. Keep it to yourself.

 

[Steve_424]

Polar opposite, actually. The Bible teaches that we all sin. If I hadn't been explicitly taught these things, who knows what boat I'd be in.

It's also unfair to say keep one's morality to oneself; Kobe's rape case is public knowledge, and people have opinions on it. My opinion doesn't need to be kept to myself anymore than Steve's or anyone else's in this thread. This is an open discussion of the legacy of an athlete, it's relevant, and people are discussing it.

I disagree with just about everything you're saying on Kobe, but I do think you're opinion and worldview should be welcome to be heard.

 

[Lee]

You're leaving out Kobe initially denying they even had sex and the examination being consistent with non-consensual sex. Her having sex with another man has nothing to do with her encounter with Kobe. Co-workers saying she seemed ok is meaningless - how many people commit suicide and nobody ever knew they were hurting? You also left out that his legal team leaked her name, which led to threats to her life that led to her not testifying and settling instead.

Her having sex with another man goes to state of mind almost 100% of the time in a rape trial, but its not proof, but it was part of the trial.

 

[David.]

You're leaving out Kobe initially denying they even had sex and the examination being consistent with non-consensual sex. Her having sex with another man has nothing to do with her encounter with Kobe. Co-workers saying she seemed ok is meaningless - how many people commit suicide and nobody ever knew they were hurting? You also left out that his legal team leaked her name, which led to threats to her life that led to her not testifying and settling instead.

His denying they has sex doesn't mean its rape. He could not want it getting out there to media and his wife that he fucking on the side.

There is also a fine line between rough sex, which kobe obviously is into, and the case his defense made, and rape but it exists

 

[Steve_424]

Her having sex with another man goes to state of mind almost 100% of the time in a rape trial, but its not proof, but it was part of the trial.

I'm sure they consider everything. To me, the bigger parts were knowing that Kobe lied to police initially and that examination of the girl was consistent with rape, not consensual sex. Hell, his apology was a pseudo-admission in a lot of ways.

 

[Lee]

I'm sure they consider everything. To me, the bigger parts were knowing that Kobe lied to police initially and that examination of the girl was consistent with rape, not consensual sex. Hell, his apology was a pseudo-admission in a lot of ways.

Not disagreeing, but I am very much get the facts right guy, and yes he lied is part of the facts.

 

[Lee]

Question. Why did Kobe get a pass on dating Vanessa when she was 17 and he was 21? Age of consent in Cali is 18, they got engaged when she was still in high school and 17, married when she was 18. In fact, Kobe's parents didn't go to the wedding, and that was part of the reason.

Not trying to trash the man, later in life he turned into a very, very good person and very pro women, but the beginning for him was rough.

 

[Man Called X]

A good way to end religious discussions is to call them fairy tells and to bring it back up instead of moving on.

My real question is mayo or Miracle Whip, because that answer alone is more relevant to this discussion, and also a good basis to judge your judeo-christian women on.