sportscoach
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Rule 5 Talk 23
- Thread starter sportscoach
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Thanks .. fixed it as I took off Miller to get to 40 but slipped him back in instead of Palacios. Miller is a hard call but long-term that is Freeman role at 2nd or utility.
For me, if you are not a top-30 prospect, you are not on the 40-man list .... Now, Miller was around top-15 but for infield, you almost have to be top-10. And, a Palacios, if he makes the 26-man can fill in at 2nd as well (with Jones Benson at 1B) to replace the Miller role. But, I guess Miller and Palacios are competing for one of those last 40 man spots ... Miller helps himself out if he grabs an OF glove as well.
Its not only about protecting prospects. You also have to have enough MLB or MLB ready players on the 40 man to put a decent team on the field.
Jose
Gimenez
Straw
Amed
J Naylor
Kwan
Those are the only proven MLB position players on the roster.
Miller
Clement
Those are two utility guys, who haven't proven anything one way or the other.
OGonz
Jones
Benson
These three will get a decent look this year.
Freeman
He's up, but won't get many at bats. (Amed and Gimenez are gonna play...period.)
Call
B Naylor
Lavastida
Arias
Brennan
Palacios
Rocchio
Valera
Assuming the latter two get called up to Columbus, this is the group that will be MLB ready from the get go. Whether they can actually play is the question, but they have AAA experience under their belts.
Noel
Tena
Already on the 40 man, but nowhere near MLB ready.
Reyes
Who knows, but you don't throw away 30-35 home runs from a RH bat, without taking a long look first.
Martinez
Has to be added, but not MLB ready.
G Rodriguez
Planez
They have value, but can't help next year.
Thats 26...and doesn't count a legit MLB catcher.
Its easy to say..lets just dump MLB players, like Amed....but it likely makes the team worse. And we would then be depending upon four unproven players to produce at a high enough level to compete.
Its easy to say...lets get rid of the util guys, like Miller...but he still has value, and other GMs know that we have to dump some good players, so they will wait us out or pay less.
And sooner or later, somebody has to go to clear space for a catcher.
On the pitching side...
Bieber
TMac
Quantrill
Plesac
Civale
Pilkington
Those are the only rotation pieces with any MLB experience, and Pilkington only as a seldom used spot starter.
Battenfield
Curry
Gaddis
Cantillo
These four need to be added and are in AAA, or should be soon.
Plus, if we want to see any of what many consider the Big Three...Williams, Espino, and Allen...next year, somebody of value will have to be dumped mid season.
Hankins
Torres
Not on 40 man, but nowhere near MLB ready.
Clase
Hentges
Morgan
Stephan
De Los Santos
Karinchak
Sandlin
These are your MLB relievers.
Mikolajchak
Misiaszek
I never want to have to spell them, but they need to be protected, or they will be gone. (Relievers usually go first in R5)
Morris
His lack of IP and health concerns mean that he can't be counted on as a rotation piece anytime soon.
Vargas
Who knows?
Thats 23 pitchers...all with value.
That doesn't count Castro, McCarty, and Gose.
Its easy to say...lets trade a starter, and get nothing MLB ready in return...but do you really expect to compete next year with a rotation of some combination of Bieber, TMac, Quantrill, Pilkington, Civale, Battenfield, Curry, Gaddis, and Cantillo? (We've used nine different SPs this year.)
Its easy to say...lets make a four for one deal to relieve some 40 man pressure, but this FO has refused to do that for 18 months, because it refuses to trade prospects that other teams want. Guess which prospects other teams will continue to ask for. The FO has been willing to let prospects with value walk away. For two seasons we've needed to consolidate prospects, but haven't. What has changed?
The FO valued guys like Zimmer, Bradley, and Chang, and refused to trade them until we had squeezed every last drop of value out of them.
They let Harold, Nelson, and F Perez walk, and were willing to lose OGonz and Cantillo....just to hold onto prospects. Maybe none of the above ever do anything in MLB, but thats not the point. At one time they all had some value, and we squandered it.
Jose
Gimenez
Straw
Amed
J Naylor
Kwan
Those are the only proven MLB position players on the roster.
Miller
Clement
Those are two utility guys, who haven't proven anything one way or the other.
OGonz
Jones
Benson
These three will get a decent look this year.
Freeman
He's up, but won't get many at bats. (Amed and Gimenez are gonna play...period.)
Call
B Naylor
Lavastida
Arias
Brennan
Palacios
Rocchio
Valera
Assuming the latter two get called up to Columbus, this is the group that will be MLB ready from the get go. Whether they can actually play is the question, but they have AAA experience under their belts.
Noel
Tena
Already on the 40 man, but nowhere near MLB ready.
Reyes
Who knows, but you don't throw away 30-35 home runs from a RH bat, without taking a long look first.
Martinez
Has to be added, but not MLB ready.
G Rodriguez
Planez
They have value, but can't help next year.
Thats 26...and doesn't count a legit MLB catcher.
Its easy to say..lets just dump MLB players, like Amed....but it likely makes the team worse. And we would then be depending upon four unproven players to produce at a high enough level to compete.
Its easy to say...lets get rid of the util guys, like Miller...but he still has value, and other GMs know that we have to dump some good players, so they will wait us out or pay less.
And sooner or later, somebody has to go to clear space for a catcher.
On the pitching side...
Bieber
TMac
Quantrill
Plesac
Civale
Pilkington
Those are the only rotation pieces with any MLB experience, and Pilkington only as a seldom used spot starter.
Battenfield
Curry
Gaddis
Cantillo
These four need to be added and are in AAA, or should be soon.
Plus, if we want to see any of what many consider the Big Three...Williams, Espino, and Allen...next year, somebody of value will have to be dumped mid season.
Hankins
Torres
Not on 40 man, but nowhere near MLB ready.
Clase
Hentges
Morgan
Stephan
De Los Santos
Karinchak
Sandlin
These are your MLB relievers.
Mikolajchak
Misiaszek
I never want to have to spell them, but they need to be protected, or they will be gone. (Relievers usually go first in R5)
Morris
His lack of IP and health concerns mean that he can't be counted on as a rotation piece anytime soon.
Vargas
Who knows?
Thats 23 pitchers...all with value.
That doesn't count Castro, McCarty, and Gose.
Its easy to say...lets trade a starter, and get nothing MLB ready in return...but do you really expect to compete next year with a rotation of some combination of Bieber, TMac, Quantrill, Pilkington, Civale, Battenfield, Curry, Gaddis, and Cantillo? (We've used nine different SPs this year.)
Its easy to say...lets make a four for one deal to relieve some 40 man pressure, but this FO has refused to do that for 18 months, because it refuses to trade prospects that other teams want. Guess which prospects other teams will continue to ask for. The FO has been willing to let prospects with value walk away. For two seasons we've needed to consolidate prospects, but haven't. What has changed?
The FO valued guys like Zimmer, Bradley, and Chang, and refused to trade them until we had squeezed every last drop of value out of them.
They let Harold, Nelson, and F Perez walk, and were willing to lose OGonz and Cantillo....just to hold onto prospects. Maybe none of the above ever do anything in MLB, but thats not the point. At one time they all had some value, and we squandered it.
You are using Harold Ramirez as an example as some lost asset? The same guy who was with three organizations before us and has been with two since? What value did he bring when the Cubs dumped him? I think you highly overrate some of these guys as having true value. Like every team doesn’t have an organization and where their scouts and talent evaluators brought most of those guys into said system.
I’m sorry I just can’t even.
I’m sorry I just can’t even.
BimboColesHair
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Quit using hindsight on how he’s performed so far this season to push that Cantillo would have been lost in the Rule 5.
He wasn’t going to get picked.
He wasn’t going to get picked.
BimboColesHair
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And again, this isn’t a big deal of an off season for the Rule 5.
Naylor, Martinez, Curry, Brennan, Battenfield, Gaddis, Cantillo are must adds. 7 spots.
Miko, Hankins, Misiaszek are on the fence.
Fermin, Gabby Rodriguez, John Rodriguez, Lenny Torres are long shots.
At 42 with Morris and Gose on the 60 day. So let’s work down to 32 very realistically as we stand today, also making room for Morris to come off the 60 day.
Hedges is a free agent, 41.
Shaw has a club option, 40.
Maile DFA, 39.
Gose DFA, 38.
Castro DFA, 37.
Clement DFA, 36.
Reyes DFA, 35
McCarty DFA, 34
Call DFA, 33.
De los Santos DFA, 32.
7 must adds are protected and maybe the only decent MLB piece lost is De los Santos, but you can find a guy like him off the scrap pile every year.
That’s also assuming no trades made, which they’ll be making trades this winter.
Naylor, Martinez, Curry, Brennan, Battenfield, Gaddis, Cantillo are must adds. 7 spots.
Miko, Hankins, Misiaszek are on the fence.
Fermin, Gabby Rodriguez, John Rodriguez, Lenny Torres are long shots.
At 42 with Morris and Gose on the 60 day. So let’s work down to 32 very realistically as we stand today, also making room for Morris to come off the 60 day.
Hedges is a free agent, 41.
Shaw has a club option, 40.
Maile DFA, 39.
Gose DFA, 38.
Castro DFA, 37.
Clement DFA, 36.
Reyes DFA, 35
McCarty DFA, 34
Call DFA, 33.
De los Santos DFA, 32.
7 must adds are protected and maybe the only decent MLB piece lost is De los Santos, but you can find a guy like him off the scrap pile every year.
That’s also assuming no trades made, which they’ll be making trades this winter.
sportscoach
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How do you think they will address the third catcher? Maile/Hedges resigned or acquiring a young C to mix in with Lava and Naylor?
BimboColesHair
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They’ll sign a Maile type to a minimum deal after the 40 man deadline and after they trade some pieces.
Hard to get trades done by mid-November for the 40 man cutoff. Some happen at the GM meetings, but they’re rare.
But they’ll move some 40 man pieces after that November deadline that will let them go after an experienced C for a 40 man spot, and/or an experienced reliever for a 40 man spot.
sportscoach
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Could you see them going a young defensive C in a deal like they did with Myers last season (aka a younger prospect for a Rule 5 add) or do they really want to focus on the MLB backup to be one with years in MLB?
BimboColesHair
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Considering I’d say it’s a lock that one of Lavastida or Naylor breaks camp as a C in 2023, and not temporarily either like Lavastida was this season, that it’s also a lock they’ll look to add someone experienced.
sportscoach
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So then after the Rule 5 draft, they will do the sign/resign a veteran C
I am kind of hoping they get a Maile/Hedges in our minors next season to work with the guy who doesn't win the battle, to help them keep progressing/be insurance.
Personally, I wouldn't be against getting both Maile and Hedges into camp next season on minor league deals with opts. The winner gets the 40 man spot, the other gets the AAA mentor spot (if there isn't a MLB spot somewhere). I mean even bringing Leon back on a minor league deal is okay with me. I just hope though we can find a backup with a little better bat than those three
Yeah, the numbers game isn't as bad as it seemed at first. The unexpected emergence of all this upper minors OF created a little crunch.
I'm surprised you see DeLo as a DFA candidate. No options left, but if he keeps this up, he's earned his keep.
Otoh, I'm not as sure as you are about Shaw. If they keep him throughout this season with all incentives kicked in, they might be crazy enough to just keep him on the roster.
Also, can we all feel a little bad for Alex Call? He gets on base 3 times (!) in one game vs McClanahan and he gets optioned and everybody pencils him in as DFA. Not cool. As a RH bat who can play all 3 spots, he might have an argument H2H vs Palacios for one of the last spots as AAA depth?
sportscoach
RD's Guardians PR Man!
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I mean he hasn't played above A ball, so if we lose him in the Rule 5, then so be it...
For those who don't follow Rule 5 (and should be other thread) ...
The majority of players picked are still pitchers and you always have a Badoo who can come out of nowhere but remember he was the 13th ranked Twins prospect too - other teams look for higher returns (not a mid 20 prospect of G Rodriquez and later for J Rodriquez) - probably why J got the callup to AA first (easier to hide).
2020 Rule 5 Draft results, pick by pick
With a lack of a 2020 Minor League season, or even an Arizona Fall League, the general feeling ahead of Thursday’s Rule 5 Draft was the annual event that typically ends with the Winter Meetings would be relatively quiet. Turns out, that feeling was wrong. A total of 18 players
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And even if Badoo had a hot early 2021 before pitchers figured him out, most fall back to earth (-0.2 War this year and his 1st/2nd half OPS last year was .813/.715 thanks to a .367 BAbip in first half.
2019 Rule 5 Draft results: Pick by pick
SAN DIEGO -- Every Thursday morning at the Winter Meetings, team executives stream into a ballroom, rollerbags in hand, with the Rule 5 Draft the last stop before the Meetings conclude and the baseball world heads home. There was some intrigue heading into the 2019 Rule 5 Draft, with the
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Odds are that one of our AA/AAA relief pitchers will be the ones going as we added all of our potential starters in Curry/Gaddis only needing to add Hankins now to protect the upside (leaving Torres off).