The 2020 Cleveland Indians

[hockeyjohn]

Young controllable pitching that is ML ready helps the Indians. Gives them flexibility to flip Kluber, Salazar or Carrasco for other needs. Both of the top OF specs that you claim are so far away will debut in 2020 at some point. Also in a package for Lindor the Braves moving Austin Riley wouldn't be so shocking. Alex Anthouplous has an affinity for Donaldson who crushed it for the Braves last season.

So if you don't think a package of Riley + Wright + Pasche/Waters doesn't help now and in the future idk what to tell you. I'm not a Indian fan. But Braves can send them a very fair package for now and the future. Braves would be more willing to move top talent then the Dodgers who only players from the 2nd tier of prospects in their system. Although 2nd tier specs in LAs system are usually better then top tier in some systems.

Riley has promise, but has yet to hit in MLB and was sent back down to AAA by the Braves. Pache has only has 95 at bats in AAA and Waters has 107 at bats at AAA. Both may be ready in the latter part of 2020. Both are great prospects, but for helping in 2020 is a great risk. A Braves trade would definitely help in 2021 and beyond, but I don't see it in 2020. Besides Riley and our top prospect, Nolan Jones, who also could see some time late in 2020 both play 3B.

Carlos Carrasco has signed two very team friendly deals with the idea that he wants to play his whole career in Cleveland. A small market team does not trade a contract like Carrasco's. The Indians can trade Kluber and still have a starting rotation of Clevinger, Bieber, Carrasco, Civale, and Plesac with Plutko, Rodriquez, Allen as depth pieces for 2020. Salazar will likely be cut from the 40 man roster. Wright would add depth to the rotation, but starting pitching is not the biggest need. Offense is the Indians biggest need as we scored 170 runs fewer than the Twins and 177 fewer runs than the Yankees in 2019.

With Cleveland's strong starting pitching, they are a contender in 2020.
Most of the 2019 Minnesota Twins pitching staff are free agents so, unless they spend loads of money or prospect capital, the Twins will take a step back. If the Indians trade Lindor this offseason, it will be for a package that helps in 2020 and beyond. I definitely agree with you that a Braves trade, like the one you mentioned would help in 2021 and beyond. I just do not agree with you that it can help in 2020. That is a sticking point in my opinion.

 

[NMCav]

Riley has promise, but has yet to hit in MLB and was sent back down to AAA by the Braves. Pache has only has 95 at bats in AAA and Waters has 107 at bats at AAA. Both may be ready in the latter part of 2020. Both are great prospects, but for helping in 2020 is a great risk. A Braves trade would definitely help in 2021 and beyond, but I don't see it in 2020. Besides Riley and our top prospect, Nolan Jones, who also could see some time late in 2020 both play 3B.

Carlos Carrasco has signed two very team friendly deals with the idea that he wants to play his whole career in Cleveland. A small market team does not trade a contract like Carrasco's. The Indians can trade Kluber and still have a starting rotation of Clevinger, Bieber, Carrasco, Civale, and Plesac with Plutko, Rodriquez, Allen as depth pieces for 2020. Salazar will likely be cut from the 40 man roster. Wright would add depth to the rotation, but starting pitching is not the biggest need.

With Cleveland's strong starting pitching, they are a contender in 2020.
Most of the 2019 Minnesota Twins pitching staff are free agents so, unless they spend loads of money or prospect capital, the Twins will take a step back. If the Indians trade Lindor this offseason, it will be for a package that helps in 2020 and beyond. I definitely agree with you that a Braves trade, like the one you mentioned would help in 2021 and beyond. I just do not agree with you that it can help in 2020. That is a sticking point in my opinion.

I see your point. I was just offering an outsiders perspective. Dodgers don't trade their blue chippers. Its why deals don't get done with them. Lindor isn't a big enough upgrade on Seager to where it makes sense to part with Lux for them. Braves with Alex Anthouplous are easily ready to move blue chippers. Could also be a three team trade where Indians get Riley (He got sent back down but he's a masher) + ML ready IF help + Pasche or Waters (They will be ready by June or July imo), Braves get Lindor and then third team gets Braves Pitching specs.

Tribe could also possibly get Dansby Swanson back. Swanson hasn't been as good as advertised but he's playing in his home town. Literally he grew up in Marrietta where they opened the new stadium in the ATL area. Sometimes the pressure of playing at home can cause either increased or decreased production for players.

I'm not saying Braves are the best option. But they are better then the Dodgers who have shown a tendency not to trade their top echelon of prospects in the past. They held onto Joc, Urias, Seager, Bellinger, Buehler, Verdugo (When their OF was stacked). They dealt guys like Willie Calhoun, Yusinel Diaz, but never their top tier blue chippers. And it just isn't likely that they start dealing them for a marginal upgrade at SS. Lindor is faster and a much better defender but Dodgers use so much analytics and positioning in the field they made Max Muncy competent at 2B for stretches in 2019.

 

[Derek]

The Dodgers are a better option because they have better guys to offer. Whether or not they will is another question, but we don’t need to trade Lindor if we don’t get the exact guys we want.

 

[NMCav]

The Dodgers are a better option because they have better guys to offer. Whether or not they will is another question, but we don’t need to trade Lindor if we don’t get the exact guys we want.

Except they don't have better guys to offer unless Friedman completely changes how he's running the team. They have guys they won't deal and haven't crossed that line with any of them yet. Lux and May fall into that category. Braves are more willing to trade a blue chipper then Dodgers. Alex Anthopolous when in Toronto loved making the big splashes.

So Dodgers may have better players to trade their Front Office historically won't. Indians - Dodger rumors will end up like the Kluber rumors. Dodgers don't need Lindor and Indians don't need to trade Lindor. So they are actually terrible trading partners.

 

[Derek]

Except they don't have better guys to offer unless Friedman completely changes how he's running the team. They have guys they won't deal and haven't crossed that line with any of them yet. Lux and May fall into that category. Braves are more willing to trade a blue chipper then Dodgers. Alex Anthopolous when in Toronto loved making the big splashes.

So Dodgers may have better players to trade their Front Office historically won't. Indians - Dodger rumors will end up like the Kluber rumors. Dodgers don't need Lindor and Indians don't need to trade Lindor. So they are actually terrible trading partners.

I feel like you didn’t read my post at all

 

[NMCav]

I feel like you didn’t read my post at all

I did. You said whether they will or not. I answered the question. Unless something drastically changes with how their run the Dodgers won't deal guys they deem untouchable. Which makes the Braves or another team more willing to part with Blue Chippers a better option.

 

[Derek]

I did. You said wether they will or not. I answered the question. Unless something drastically changes with how their run the Dodgers won't deal guys they deem untouchable. Which makes the Braves or another team more willing to part with Blue Chippers a better option.

First, we don’t know who’s untouchable. You’re just assuming.

Second, if I can’t get Lux and May, I’m not trading Frankie!

We have no reason to trade if we don’t get exactly what we want.

 

[NMCav]

First, we don’t know who’s untouchable. You’re just assuming.

Second, if I can’t get Lux and May, I’m not trading Frankie!

We have no reason to trade if we don’t get exactly what we want.

The media has been saying for 2 years May and Lux are untouchable. Much like how the media said Verdugo, Bellinger, Buehler, Seager, Urias, Pederson were in the past.

Much like the Indians in demanding a certain package for Lindor because they don't have to deal him, Dodgers are in the unique position of not needing him. Which is why they are terrible trading partners for each other. Neither needs the deal to happen. Indians have no leverage because Dodgers have options at SS in house Seager and Lux. Indians have Lindor for 2 more years.

When neither side has leverage it makes it harder to make a deal happen. And in this situation neither side has leverage. Braves need a SS so Indians would have leverage with them.

 

[Derek]

The media has been saying for 2 years May and Lux are untouchable. Much like how the media said Verdugo, Bellinger, Buehler, Seager, Urias, Pederson were in the past.

Much like the Indians in demanding a certain package for Lindor because they don't have to deal him, Dodgers are in the unique position of not needing him. Which is why they are terrible trading partners for each other. Neither needs the deal to happen. Indians have no leverage because Dodgers have options at SS in house Seager and Lux. Indians have Lindor for 2 more years.

When neither side has leverage it makes it harder to make a deal happen. And in this situation neither side has leverage. Braves need a SS so Indians would have leverage with them.

The Braves don’t have Lux and May, so I’ll pass.

 

[NMCav]

The Braves don’t have Lux and May, so I’ll pass.

Makes zero sense for Indians to limit Lindors market to one team that won't pay the price they want. Pache, Waters, Ian Anderson all rank ahead of Dustin May in top 100 rankings as well. Braves have a very well stocked farm and a need to make the trade.

Dealing Lindor this off season is likely a bad idea from the start though. No contenders really need a SS outside of ATL. So if you don't care for ATL prospects hope they find a 3rd team that does. Maybe Athletics make a play they've been known to buy players short term like Ben Zobrist then flip them if they fall out of the race. But Red Sox, Yankees, Rays, Twins, Whitesox, Astros, Angels, Phillies, Nationals, Cardinals, Cubs, Dodgers, Rockies all have Shortstops. Braves only real team contending that in theory needs one.

 

[Derek]

Makes zero sense for Indians to limit Lindors market to one team that won't pay the price they want. Pache, Waters, Ian Anderson all rank ahead of Dustin May in top 100 rankings as well. Braves have a very well stocked farm and a need to make the trade.

Dealing Lindor this off season is likely a bad idea from the start though. No contenders really need a SS outside of ATL. So if you don't care for ATL prospects hope they find a 3rd team that does. Maybe Athletics make a play they've been known to buy players short term like Ben Zobrist then flip them if they fall out of the race. But Red Sox, Yankees, Rays, Twins, Whitesox, Astros, Angels, Phillies, Nationals, Cardinals, Cubs, Dodgers, Rockies all have Shortstops. Braves only real team contending that in theory needs one.

Makes all the sense in the world to limit Lindor's market to teams that can pay the price we want, and the Braves simply cannot in my opinion.

 

[NMCav]

Makes all the sense in the world to limit Lindor's market to teams that can pay the price we want, and the Braves simply cannot in my opinion.

A team with a top 5 farm system can't pay the price you want? Strange thought process. I even suggested if the Braves top specs don't interest you its easy to draw a third team in because other teams would love Pache, Waters, Anderson, Wright or Riley.

 

[Derek]

A team with a top 5 farm system can't pay the price you want? Strange thought process. I even suggested if the Braves top specs don't interest you its easy to draw a third team in because other teams would love Pache, Waters, Anderson, Wright or Riley.

I'm just not high enough on any of the Braves guys, nor do I think what they have matches up with my wants and needs.

Essentially, we snagged Baseball America's #33 prospect entering 2019 in Taylor Trammel and Scott Moss, who has had a good deal of success at every level (and currently sits at AAA) for less than a year and a half of Trevor Bauer.

With that in mind, the price tag on Lindor is astronomical.

A Lindor trade needs to net a price we've never seen paid before. The Rays, Dodgers, White Sox, Twins, Tigers, and A's are the only teams with multiple top 25 prospects. So, eliminate the divisional teams. That leaves the Rays, Dodgers, and A's. Both of the A's guys are pitchers, and I really want a hitter in return. That leaves the Rays and Dodgers. Which of those teams do you think is most likely to trade for Lindor?

 

[NMCav]

I'm just not high enough on any of the Braves guys, nor do I think what they have matches up with my wants and needs.

Essentially, we snagged Baseball America's #33 prospect entering 2019 in Taylor Trammel and Scott Moss, who has had a good deal of success at every level (and currently sits at AAA) for less than a year and a half of Trevor Bauer.

With that in mind, the price tag on Lindor is astronomical.

A Lindor trade needs to net a price we've never seen paid before. The Rays, Dodgers, White Sox, Twins, Tigers, and A's are the only teams with multiple top 25 prospects. So, eliminate the divisional teams. That leaves the Rays, Dodgers, and A's. Both of the A's guys are pitchers, and I really want a hitter in return. That leaves the Rays and Dodgers. Which of those teams do you think is most likely to trade for Lindor?

Neither. Lindor is great but he's not a substantial upgrade over Seager for the Dodgers. And Rays are too cheap to acquire someone like Lindor. Out of the teams mentioned A's would be the most likely buyers depending on how they view Siemian since Barreto has struggled.

Just not a huge need for shortstops right now. Also reds being stupid doesn't mean every other team is. Reds essentially gave away Trammell, Downs, Gray for Bauer and Farmer. Since Puig was flipped at the deadline and Wood only pitched half a season for them. When they aren't close to contending for their division let alone a championship.

 

[Derek]

Neither. Lindor is great but he's not a substantial upgrade over Seager for the Dodgers. And Rays are too cheap to acquire someone like Lindor. Out of the teams mentioned A's would be the most likely buyers depending on how they view Siemian since Barreto has struggled.

Just not a huge need for shortstops right now. Also reds being stupid doesn't mean every other team is. Reds essentially gave away Trammell, Downs, Gray for Bauer and Farmer. Since Puig was flipped at the deadline and Wood only pitched half a season for them. When they aren't close to contending for their division let alone a championship.

Then we don't trade him, and I'm fine with that.