The Last of Us Spoiler Discussion

[pr26]

If Joel thought she wouldn't have wanted to go through with it, he wouldn't have swore to her at the end of the episode.

Ultimately, Joel is guilty of the same thing as Marlene.

Well I’ll add this: Can a child who clearly has PTSD and recently suffered severe trauma truly make that choice for themselves? Marlene was making that choice for Ellie, technically Joel could give her a chance to grow up and make that choice for herself later. Of course, Ellie would need to know the truth to make that choice. Watching the show, we don’t know if that will occur or not.

 

[Urban]

There also is the additional thumb on the scale of the brutality that Joel ended up using to free her, which seem to hint at the writers siding with one choice over the other.

Definitely noticed this as well, at least the brutality part of it. I don't necessarily think the writers were siding one way or another, but were trying to show that even though Joel is one of the main characters, he's a bad guy too.

They really made the fireflies look like a bunch of helpless soldiers in the way that Joel mowed them down with ease. Seemed a bit like Anakin in ROTS even though you never seen him do that in the movies.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Definitely noticed this as well. They really made the fireflies look like a bunch of helpless soldiers in the way that Joel mowed them down with ease. Seemed a bit like Anakin in ROTS even though you never seen him do that in the movies.

It blurred the important distinction between the decision to free her, and the brutality with which he chose to accomplish that.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Well I’ll add this: Can a child who clearly has PTSD and recently suffered severe trauma truly make that choice for themselves? Marlene was making that choice for Ellie, technically Joel could give her a chance to grow up and make that choice for herself later. Of course, Ellie would need to know the truth to make that choice. Watching the show, we don’t know if that will occur or not.

In that regard, I thought it critical that Ellie was unconscious during the entire rescue, which meant that it was impossible for Joel to ask her, or for her to otherwise make that choice. Joel was forced to make an immediate decision based on incomplete information. Marlene wasn't.

 

[SalvadoranCavsfan]

This is part of what made the first game so great because it isn't clear what she would have chosen. I know she said the whole journey couldn't have been for nothing but it's still a hard sell for someone to offer to get cut up for a CHANCE at a cure.

Marlene didn't give Ellie a choice and Joel robbed her of ever choosing on her own by gunning down everyone, including probably one of the last qualified surgeons on Earth.

I remember feeling so dirty after finishing the game, I could not pick it back up for a very long time.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Marlene didn't give Ellie a choice and Joel robbed her of ever choosing on her own by gunning down everyone, including probably one of the last qualified surgeons on Earth.

They muddied that up well by having Joel first order the surgeon to let her go, then having the surgeon refuse and grab a scalpal to fight. Would he have let the surgeon survive if the surgeon would have released her, and not grabbed the knife? I suspect so, else he'd have just shot him right off the bat. But then, did he have to shoot to kill rather than just disable when he clearly had a better weapon?

I see it as Joel being put into a horrible situation not of his own making, and forced to make immediate, irrevocable choices. He made the comment at one point that "they'd just follow", which very likely was correct. So once he realized that, he mentally put them all into the category of supporting her murder, so he chose to protect her.

Massively different to me personally if Marlene had given Ellie that choice first, though.

 

[CardiacCavs]

Big L for the surgeon who thought he could do anything with a scalpel when Joel had just cleared house in the entire hospital and was pointing a gun at him. Be better buddy. If he had just cowered in the corner like the nurses, maybe he survives and later down the line the surgery can occur by Ellie's own choice.

Not sure if you guys noticed, but Laura Bailey (the voice actor for an important character in the second game) cameoed as one of the nurses. (even more Critical Role representation with Ashley Johnson as Ellie's mom).

 

[kookoo]

I was worried they wouldn't do the game justice but they really did. Easily one of the best seasons of any show. I do wish we saw some of the REALLY tense gameplay moments in the show which were in creepy underground sewers, ect to bring the horror elements in from the game. But it's pretty clear they don't necessarily want to go down the horror route. Outside of a few key scenes anyway.

One thing I'm really hoping for is they don't do anything sentient or hive mind-y in the following seasons. Definitely don't want the Strain type BS in here. Well done HBO.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I glad as hell Joel is still alive. Didn't think there was any way he would have survived that kind of stab in the abdomen while in the middle of nowhere, but I suppose plot armor can do that.

Really looking forward to the second season.

 

[Chris]

Big L for the surgeon who thought he could do anything with a scalpel when Joel had just cleared house in the entire hospital and was pointing a gun at him. Be better buddy. If he had just cowered in the corner like the nurses, maybe he survives and later down the line the surgery can occur by Ellie's own choice.

Not sure if you guys noticed, but Laura Bailey (the voice actor for an important character in the second game) cameoed as one of the nurses. (even more Critical Role representation with Ashley Johnson as Ellie's mom).

Yeah, dude could have lived and been working on his golf swing right now. But nope. Oh well.

Least Joel spared the nurses. I know a lot of you fuckers didn’t in the game.

 

[Urban]

I was worried they wouldn't do the game justice but they really did. Easily one of the best seasons of any show. I do wish we saw some of the REALLY tense gameplay moments in the show which were in creepy underground sewers, ect to bring the horror elements in from the game. But it's pretty clear they don't necessarily want to go down the horror route. Outside of a few key scenes anyway.

One thing I'm really hoping for is they don't do anything sentient or hive mind-y in the following seasons. Definitely don't want the Strain type BS in here. Well done HBO.

Definitely a delicate balance of how much to include the infected. Wish we had seen a bit more of them.

Also I know it would’ve been difficult to squeeze out a full episode of the game’s events with Bill and the episode they created was very good. But that chapter had some very memorable moments

-Joel getting caught upside down in one of Bill’s traps and having to shoot away infected
-The banter between Ellie and Bill
-First encounter with a bloater in the high school gym
-Finding Frank hanging with his suicide note. One of many gut punches the game throws at you showing how brutal this world is


Also would’ve liked to have seen Ish’s story incorporated somehow but that’s a very hard ask to translate into the show and it doesn’t have any affect on the characters so

 

[Jack Brickman]

Yeah, dude could have lived and been working on his golf swing right now. But nope. Oh well.

Least Joel spared the nurses. I know a lot of you fuckers didn’t in the game.

I feel personally attacked.

A heel turn is a heel turn. Can't half ass it.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

I am glad that I was able to avoid spoilers from the gaming world for this season.

Spoiler: season2

Unfortunately, I'm 93% sure that Joel dies in season 2. I just don't know when/how it happens. I am not happy about this at all.

 

[Kbiz]

Yeah, dude could have lived and been working on his golf swing right now. But nope. Oh well.

Least Joel spared the nurses. I know a lot of you fuckers didn’t in the game.