Thoughts on trading Jose Ramirez

[sportscoach]

Yup. Maximum value for now, is as an Indian and that is quite alright with me

Ive done a ton of time in simulators and I hate to say it, but outside of maybe my backup catcher, and like utility type of guys, its very very hard to keep players in a small market team past there initial contract. Jose is getting towards the end of that contract and is going to be able to merit more money than we can give him. (I actually traded JRam, Lindor etc in 21, to just start a rebuild and whatnot, but I would feel so bad for the fan base in real life, since I was constantly moving guys to keep my budget under a certain amount. It really sucks, but until baseball has a hard cap, its what ya gotta live with being an Indians fan.

 

[Gson]

Trading JRam is practically inevitable. We'd obviously get a haul for him, but he is just too valuable to the team now. Once the season starts, I'm listening and if we end up 10+ back at the deadline (not happening) maybe then.... Maybe.. Depends on how we got there. Otherwise he is here for the year.

His trade value could even increase between now and the end of the season. Not likely, but I do not see a steep enough dropoff in overall value to create any "urgency". Besides we have other spots to fill and an internal squeeze is needed to see who we got and who we should target in a trade.

That said.... Never say never.... The Tribe would trade him now if they got the 5 players of their choice (within obvious reason) in return. No one makes that trade (Braves may sniff it) but that's where the bar is now IMO.

Wonder where this thread will wander to this summer....

Agree with all this.... Inevitable.. yes..

The meandering of this thread, if I have anything to do with it.. and I do.. will be in the direction of "small / beneficial deals" that either clear a path for the near ML ready guys coming up in the system by trading away guys who are blocked or just don't look like they have what it takes... This will go a long way toward the making/creating another or "next" wave of talent..

Example of a trade proposal that fits this description:

Cardinals get : Yu Chang
Indians get : Masyn Winn

edit: Masyn who?

That next wave should be readied for right about the time Shane Bieber either begins his agreed to extension (2024).. or has just been dealt.. Right now.. there are about a half dozen guys that should be considered for this mid-20's wave: Isaiah Greene, Carson Tucker, Petey Halpin, Milan Tolentino, Gaddis, Vargas, Torres.. and a few others) .. fwiw..

It's a trade/idea thread.. where identifying guys that could become something special can be discussed.. (or repeat about fifty two times why whatever is not going to happen.. because it probably won't & is a given...)

thoughts?..

 

[CDAV45]

Trading JRam is practically inevitable. We'd obviously get a haul for him, but he is just too valuable to the team now. Once the season starts, I'm listening and if we end up 10+ back at the deadline (not happening) maybe then.... Maybe.. Depends on how we got there. Otherwise he is here for the year.

His trade value could even increase between now and the end of the season. Not likely, but I do not see a steep enough dropoff in overall value to create any "urgency". Besides we have other spots to fill and an internal squeeze is needed to see who we got and who we should target in a trade.

That said.... Never say never.... The Tribe would trade him now if they got the 5 players of their choice (within obvious reason) in return. No one makes that trade (Braves may sniff it) but that's where the bar is now IMO.

Wonder where this thread will wander to this summer....

Trading him is probably inevitable, but in order for me to even consider moving him now 2 things need to be fairly certain. 1) He cannot be extended and 2) The offer is simply too good to refuse. The Braves could make a good offer. I happen to think that the Nationals could make one just about as good.

Where I disagree with you Criz, respectfully of course, is that Ramirez's trade value could increase. I think you're looking at the pinnacle of his value right now. He might be able to maintain that, but that is also unlikely due to father time. What scares me the most is him not performing as well or getting hurt, but that's the chance you take. Consider how Brantley's injury possibly set this team back. Had he been healthy they probably would have moved him for a couple of nice prospects who would be contributing now. Kluber is another example.

This isn't me passing judgement with hindsight. This is just how things work out sometimes.

 

[avs2000]

Trading him is probably inevitable, but in order for me to even consider moving him now 2 things need to be fairly certain. 1) He cannot be extended and 2) The offer is simply too good to refuse. The Braves could make a good offer. I happen to think that the Nationals could make one just about as good.

Where I disagree with you Criz, respectfully of course, is that Ramirez's trade value could increase. I think you're looking at the pinnacle of his value right now. He might be able to maintain that, but that is also unlikely due to father time. What scares me the most is him not performing as well or getting hurt, but that's the chance you take. Consider how Brantley's injury possibly set this team back. Had he been healthy they probably would have moved him for a couple of nice prospects who would be contributing now. Kluber is another example.

This isn't me passing judgement with hindsight. This is just how things work out sometimes.

I agree. He is in his prime. 3 cheap years left. Now is the time to move him Possibly next year with two years left. We can’t let him go down to one year like lindor

it has to be quite the haul though. But he should be worth it

 

[BimboColesHair]

0% chance now.
5% chance trade deadline.
90% chance next winter.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

0% chance now.
5% chance trade deadline.
90% chance next winter.

Fangraphs gives the Indians about a 18% chance to make the playoffs. (The PLAYOFFS, not the World Series.) So maybe the trade percentages go up at the trade deadline. Plus it gives the Indians a chance to scout the potential return.

 

[Kevalier]

0% chance now.
5% chance trade deadline.
90% chance next winter.

God, this is depressing... If they were willing to offer between $200-250 million to Lindor, isn't there at least a serious conversation to have with Jose about an extension? Especially if they can do increase the AAV on the final two years of his current deal.

 

[Gson]

Timing for a Ramirez extension is also at a peak right now.. If the Indians want to "extend" Jose Ramirez, the 2020/2021 offseason would be the prime time..

Details and negotiations on a possible extension haven't been seen nor heard.. from either side.

 

[BimboColesHair]

God, this is depressing... If they were willing to offer between $200-250 million to Lindor, isn't there at least a serious conversation to have with Jose about an extension? Especially if they can do increase the AAV on the final two years of his current deal.

Those %s are just my opinions, not based on anything I have heard. Don't take them as gospel for what will happen.

The construction of our roster/farm just makes it feel like they'll move him or they'll have to move some prospects/radically change multiple guys positions to unblock them if he isn't moved (which itself isn't out of the question).

Only real concrete thing I have heard is expect him to be on the roster all of 2021, revisit his market next winter.

I do know they believe internally that they can get more for Jose than they got for Lindor, since he has the extra year of control on team friendly $. But they aren't forced into moving him now before his value falls off a cliff, like they were with Lindor. They can be patient and see what guys look like after a year long hiatus.

All of the trades this off season are being ridiculed for only including 1 top 100 prospect, but this minor league season will be like nothing we have seen before with the missed season. Top guys will fall off the cliff, random guys will all of a sudden be real good, guys will do things outside of their scouting reports...no one has seen these players in an actual game for a year. Going to be a fun spring and early summer in the minors.

 

[petes999]

Only real concrete thing I have heard is expect him to be on the roster all of 2021, revisit his market next winter.

I know that is the stance right now as Tribe always wants to say that they are going for at least the WC chase to keep the fans interested. However, if we are falling out of the race come July and our young starters are hitting that wall due to fatigue, I just can't see how a bunch of analytic guys will look at the returns that they can get from Ramirez for 3 playoff chases from true contenders versus just 2 if they wait until offseason or next trade deadline. It just doesn't make mathematical sense. If top teams are reluctant to give up their top 4 prospects (top 100 talent) for a Lindor and 1 season, you got to use the leverage while you got it.

 

[DCTribefan]

Sure but 26 of 159 comments to date from a single poster?

Bump, now 33 of 180 comments.

 

[sportscoach]

Timing for a Ramirez extension is also at a peak right now.. If the Indians want to "extend" Jose Ramirez, the 2020/2021 offseason would be the prime time..

Details and negotiations on a possible extension haven't been seen nor heard.. from either side.

JRam is going to be able to merit probably a 3-4 year/100 mil contract type of situation which is not something the Indians would do. If we are out at the trade deadline, we may look to move JRam, but otherwise we likely will buy at this trade deadline for someone who has long term control.

 

[Gson]

JRam is going to be able to merit probably a 3-4 year/100 mil contract type of situation which is not something the Indians would do. If we are out at the trade deadline, we may look to move JRam, but otherwise we likely will buy at this trade deadline for someone who has long term control.

Is this what you are describing..

...buying would mean the Indians are clearly contending or may be in a position where they are likely to be a factor in the AL Central.. (with our pitching staff, not a huge stretch).. the Indians found themselves in the same position in 2016 when they traded four prospects (all 40 man roster guys) for Andrew Miller.. a guy with three years of control.. So, while not 5 or 6.. three.. in a spot that is a difference maker for the Indians to buy what they need with some cash saved from the Lindor/Santana/Hand/et al departures.

Oh.. and keeping JRam through the end of the season.. we won't be competing unless he's a big part of it..

 

[CDAV45]

Clearly, before any more money is invested in extensions I would think that there needs to be a bit of a financial rebound. Should there be, then having the payroll reduced to one of the league's lowest might allow them to offer extensions to Ramirez and Bieber. That could be a good reason to not to get in a hurry to deal Ramirez outside of having his bat in the lineup. I'm curious to know if this leverage has any team contemplating an overpay?

Gson, how do you know "we won't be competing unless he's a big part of it"? Clearly you're not going to replace him with a better 3B unless he underperforms or gets injured(a possibility). Conversely, I'm not saying that we will compete without him. I just can't see how anyone can pass that judgement without knowing what the return is and how it will perform.

 

[Gson]

Clearly, before any more money is invested in extensions I would think that there needs to be a bit of a financial rebound. Should there be, then having the payroll reduced to one of the league's lowest might allow them to offer extensions to Ramirez and Bieber. That could be a good reason to not to get in a hurry to deal Ramirez outside of having his bat in the lineup. I'm curious to know if this leverage has any team contemplating an overpay?

Gson, how do you know "we won't be competing unless he's a big part of it"? Clearly you're not going to replace him with a better 3B unless he underperforms or gets injured(a possibility). Conversely, I'm not saying that we will compete without him. I just can't see how anyone can pass that judgement without knowing what the return is and how it will perform.

The comment suggested the Indians would be inclined to KEEP Jose Ramirez if they're competing for the division/playoff spot. It also stated that a reason for the Indians competing would be because of Jose Ramirez's contributions..