Thoughts on trading Jose Ramirez

[CATS44]

Man, something has to give. I'm all for putting a package together for an upgrade, but where and for who?

I won't get into the idea of a Ramirez trade. We've already discussed that to death. Let's go with your idea that they keep him. Hell, I hope they lock him up again. The list of those that won't return looks pretty accurate to me, although I think they'll pick up Hernandez's option and trade him because MC and CA are good at extracting value. Eddie won't be back unless Naylor fails, and that isn't likely.

The one avenue that we haven't given much thought to is the idea of trading for a young, controlled SP. I don't know who or if it's even possible, but what if they could acquire a talented SP to plug into the 2 or 3 hole? Would it be feasible? It's just a thought brought about by the realization that something has to give and I don't see CA and MC watching that much talent going via the rule V. Will be interesting to see how things play out because I honestly don't have a clue.

The obvious area of need right now is 1B. Acquiring a big bat there would probably make us the odds on favorite for the division. There again.....who?

Whatever happens this organization is sitting pretty going forward. Any success this season is icing on the cake for me so I don't think I could be disappointed in the results regardless.

The who will depend upon where some teams stand at the deadline...but there will be available bats on teams interested in what we have.

 

[Tondo]

A handful of names to add to the list (all worthy of watching & possibly protecting depending on how they perform or others fail to perform):
Alexfri Planez
Jhonkensy Noel
Jose Tena
Andres Melendez (from the Mark Mathias deal with MKE)

Robert Broom

The CLE farm system is DEEP.

Yeah, it's so deep that how about instead of talking about trading off our best player, we talk about adding to a fine, but imperfect roster.

I'm eyeing 1B Matt Olson if the A's go nowhere this season. He's in his ARB1 year making 5M. Maybe in a package deal with 32yo OF/CF Mark Canha.

N. Jones/Hankins/B. Bradley/S. Moss, might take a bit more (Hentges instead of Moss, more upside lottery ticket over Moss: Tena, Planez, Vargas etc)

G. Rodriguez/C. Morris for Canha rental? Maybe throw in O. Gonzalez or W. Benson or R. Burgos

 

[BCinLA]

what we think is basically irrelevant; if the indians get an offer they feel they can't refuse, jram will be gone. but it'd have to be a heck of an offer for a perennial MVP candidate on a great contract. otherwise, they need jram to build the offense around. granted, so far reyes has proved to be a very pleasant surprise. if the pitching holds up and we get decent production out of whoever we have playing 1B we'll flirt with making the playoffs. i think 88 wins is possible.

 

[sportscoach]

Lets say we trade Jose.

Lets also say that we don't bring back...

Eddie
Hernandez
Shaw
Ollie
Zimmer
Bauers
Gamel
H Ramirez


Lets also say that this off season, we don't add a single FA to improve the club.

We are left with these...

Franmil
Berto
Naylor
Luplow
Gimenez
Amed
Chang
Arias
Mercado
Johnson
Bradley
Jones
Clement
Hedges or a MLB level back up catcher

Bieber
Plesac
Civale
TMac
Allen
Quantrill
Moss
Wittgren
Karinchak
Clase
Maton
Stephan
Hill
Hentges
Morgan
Mejia
Vargas
Nelson

You also have to add...or lose for nothing..

Miller
Freeman
Rocchio
Bracho
Palacios
Valera
Kwan
Lavastida

Scott
Cantillo
Morris
Sandlin
Gose

Thats 45 players...without any return for Jose or anybody on the list above...and without any free agents.

Lets say that we get the proverbial big haul for Jose. It would contain at least three players that would have to be put on the 40 man.

You would be talking about giving away eight talented players in addition to the eight that would not be resigned.

So now lets say that in order to fill two inevitable holes in our lineup and/or bullpen, we sign two mid level FAs....something like Hernandez and Eddie. They would cost us MORE than Jose.

Jose ain't going anywhere.

Instead, we will be trading FOR an immediate upgrade.

The question then will become, who are we making a package around and for which player will we be trading for?

@CDAV45

Honestly I am not as worried about 1B... We have a ton of players who could slide over and take 1B without issues. I am more worried about who can actually hit since that's been our issue more than who can defensively play where. Jones, Miller, Bradley, Naylor etc all can play first. I jokingly said the other day, why not let the 6'5 Zimmer play some there lol but honestly if they can hit, they will find a position for them..

Yeah, it's so deep that how about instead of talking about trading off our best player, we talk about adding to a fine, but imperfect roster.

I'm eyeing 1B Matt Olson if the A's go nowhere this season. He's in his ARB1 year making 5M. Maybe in a package deal with 32yo OF/CF Mark Canha.

N. Jones/Hankins/B. Bradley/S. Moss, might take a bit more (Hentges instead of Moss, more upside lottery ticket over Moss: Tena, Planez, Vargas etc)

G. Rodriguez/C. Morris for Canha rental? Maybe throw in O. Gonzalez or W. Benson or R. Burgos

I don't think the Indians are looking to take on that much money and give up that much...

Now otherwise the Idea is correct, Canha though the is best at RF and Olson is a 1B. So are we optioning down Naylor and cutting Bauers? Naylor isn't going to ride on the bench and now all positions for him have a veteran in them with the deal.

 

[CATS44]

You can wish, hope, and pray that Jose gets traded for a monumental return all you want, but the Dolans and FO are not simply gonna let six or more solid prospects walk out the door without bringing back something that significantly upgrades the MLB roster, which is what would happen if such a trade happened.

They are also not gonna waste this young rotation while going thru the major rebuild which would happen by such a trade.

 

[Gson]

Man, something has to give. I'm all for putting a package together for an upgrade, but where and for who?

I won't get into the idea of a Ramirez trade. We've already discussed that to death. Let's go with your idea that they keep him. Hell, I hope they lock him up again. The list of those that won't return looks pretty accurate to me, although I think they'll pick up Hernandez's option and trade him because MC and CA are good at extracting value. Eddie won't be back unless Naylor fails, and that isn't likely.

The one avenue that we haven't given much thought to is the idea of trading for a young, controlled SP. I don't know who or if it's even possible, but what if they could acquire a talented SP to plug into the 2 or 3 hole? Would it be feasible? It's just a thought brought about by the realization that something has to give and I don't see CA and MC watching that much talent going via the rule V. Will be interesting to see how things play out because I honestly don't have a clue.

The obvious area of need right now is 1B. Acquiring a big bat there would probably make us the odds on favorite for the division. There again.....who?

Whatever happens this organization is sitting pretty going forward. Any success this season is icing on the cake for me so I don't think I could be disappointed in the results regardless.

DBax..

..they have the pieces / parts that could fulfill all the needs of the Tribe, perhaps not immediately now, but, clearly into the future.. It would be very expensive as in multiple very good prospects.. One thing the Tribe does have going for them.. the DBax have no illusion of contending in 2021 or, even, 2022.. The Dbax have a stud of threee 1B candidate (Beer) 2 or 3 OF candidates (Corbin, Kristian, & Alek), almost no infielders that are worth discussing (only Perdomo has the chops to become a ML'er, imho) and very few high end SP candidates.. SP's will be desperately needed for both quality and quantity by the DBax.. They could also use two or more middle infield candidates as well.. In short, the two teams could take their excesses and dovetail them nicely into each teams present and future needs...

By the trading deadline..there could be some movement by the DBax to begin setting up for the 2022/23 season..

 

[CDAV45]

Yeah, it's so deep that how about instead of talking about trading off our best player, we talk about adding to a fine, but imperfect roster.

I'm eyeing 1B Matt Olson if the A's go nowhere this season. He's in his ARB1 year making 5M. Maybe in a package deal with 32yo OF/CF Mark Canha.

N. Jones/Hankins/B. Bradley/S. Moss, might take a bit more (Hentges instead of Moss, more upside lottery ticket over Moss: Tena, Planez, Vargas etc)

G. Rodriguez/C. Morris for Canha rental? Maybe throw in O. Gonzalez or W. Benson or R. Burgos

Can you imagine Olson being our 1B? It would dramatically change the depth of this lineup.

Personally, I like the idea of Cahna in RF, but I doubt they move Naylor off of it. He'll have to struggle mightily to the break to get demoted. That and Luplow might be showing that he is more than a platoon player. If Bauers deserves an opportunity then Luplow sure as hell does too.

 

[Tondo]

@sportscoach

Canha is a much better CF than Luplow or Gamel with an actual track record there.

Another player I like for 1B is Jeimer Candelario, he's Detroit's best hitter and their FO isn't good (W. Castro overrated), so wouldn't mind dealing with them. Offer a bunch of hard throwing arms like Hentges, Vargas etc and volatile bats like G. Rodriguez or Planez and they'll bite

 

[CDAV45]

@sportscoach

Canha is a much better CF than Luplow or Gamel with an actual track record there.

Another player I like for 1B is Jeimer Candelario, he's Detroit's best hitter and their FO isn't good (W. Castro overrated), so wouldn't mind dealing with them. Offer a bunch of hard throwing arms like Hentges, Vargas etc and volatile bats like G. Rodriguez or Planez and they'll bite

Sorry Tondo, I wasn't clear in my post. I agree that Canha is better, but I don't know if the powers that be will do that to Luplow.

I think Candelario is a good hitter too, but he resembles Naylor IMO. Good hitters with moderate power is how I see them. I'd much rather have a hitter like Olsen or Dalbec if you could pry him from Boston's kung-fu grip.

 

[sportscoach]

@sportscoach

Canha is a much better CF than Luplow or Gamel with an actual track record there.

Another player I like for 1B is Jeimer Candelario, he's Detroit's best hitter and their FO isn't good (W. Castro overrated), so wouldn't mind dealing with them. Offer a bunch of hard throwing arms like Hentges, Vargas etc and volatile bats like G. Rodriguez or Planez and they'll bite

I don't think Candelario will get traded this season. If he shows 2020 wasn't a fluke they will keep him long term honestly. If it was a fluke, I wouldn't want him since he isn't any better than someone in house...

Canha numbers aren't any better in CF honestly... I would say his metrics though in RF are pretty good though, better than Naylor. I just don't know if trading for Canha is worth it since his batting history doesn't support he will be all that great. Outside of 19, he pretty much has played at a replacement level.

 

[Tondo]

Sorry Tondo, I wasn't clear in my post. I agree that Canha is better, but I don't know if the powers that be will do that to Luplow.

I think Candelario is a good hitter too, but he resembles Naylor IMO. Good hitters with moderate power is how I see them. I'd much rather have a hitter like Olsen or Dalbec if you could pry him from Boston's kung-fu grip.

Canha could also be platooned with Luplow since he has reverse splits and does even better vs RHP.

Candelario was clearly Detroit's best hitter in the two series. We got lucky Hinch had Nunez cleanup today, there was one crucial AB with 2 outs and runners out late today where I didn't want to face Candelario.
I'm not much of a Dalbec believer, so they can keep him (and doubt they'd trade him).

The O's Trey Mancini is another trade candidate if he can regain his form.

 

[Tondo]

I don't think Candelario will get traded this season. If he shows 2020 wasn't a fluke they will keep him long term honestly. If it was a fluke, I wouldn't want him since he isn't any better than someone in house...

Canha numbers aren't any better in CF honestly... I would say his metrics though in RF are pretty good though, better than Naylor. I just don't know if trading for Canha is worth it since his batting history doesn't support he will be all that great. Outside of 19, he pretty much has played at a replacement level.

Well, "since 2019" makes up almost half of Canha's career in the Majors, he has an OBP just under 400 since then in ~800 PA, that's elite. If you like to expand to 2018, he had a 115 wRc+ then and we're talking 2/3 of Canha's ML PAs. At this point I really don't care about his struggle in his first 500/600 PA back in 2015-17.

 

[sportscoach]

Well, "since 2019" makes up almost half of Canha's career in the Majors, he has an OBP just under 400 since then in ~800 PA, that's elite. If you like to expand to 2018, he had a 115 wRc+ then and we're talking 2/3 of Canha's ML PAs. At this point I really don't care about his struggle in his first 500/600 PA back in 2015-17.

My point is, he has only had one season of legit numbers. I mean if we got him for not very much I am not against it, but I am not willing to give up a top 30 prospect for him...

Now if we got a prospect like Millas back, then I'd be willing to give up more (he's a defensive minded catcher and we need catchers in general), but honestly I just don't trust going for a 32 year old player, that doesn't have a proven track record outside of one season as am upgrade over who we have. I'd rather just put Johnson out there and see what he can do ya know?

 

[CDAV45]

Canha could also be platooned with Luplow since he has reverse splits and does even better vs RHP.

Candelario was clearly Detroit's best hitter in the two series. We got lucky Hinch had Nunez cleanup today, there was one crucial AB with 2 outs and runners out late today where I didn't want to face Candelario.
I'm not much of a Dalbec believer, so they can keep him (and doubt they'd trade him).

The O's Trey Mancini is another trade candidate if he can regain his form.

I mentioned Mancini awhile back, but I doubt that the Orioles would trade their "feel good story". His defense at 1B and RF is suspect as well, but his bat would be a tremendous addition.

We're all entitled to our opinion, but I would prefer Dalbec to just about any other option. However, I agree that Boston isn't going to trade him.

 

[Tondo]

My point is, he has only had one season of legit numbers. I mean if we got him for not very much I am not against it, but I am not willing to give up a top 30 prospect for him...

Now if we got a prospect like Millas back, then I'd be willing to give up more (he's a defensive minded catcher and we need catchers in general), but honestly I just don't trust going for a 32 year old player, that doesn't have a proven track record outside of one season as am upgrade over who we have. I'd rather just put Johnson out there and see what he can do ya know?

I like our system as much as anyone, but you're seriously overrating prospects. Canha, even as a rental, is easily worth a couple of Top 30 prospects. You don't get a bat that has produced a 390+ OBP in his last 800 PAs for periphery prospects.