Thoughts on trading Jose Ramirez

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Winning the weakest division in baseball and getting booted from the playoffs in the 1st round(2017 & 2018) and not making the playoffs in 2019 is an absolute failure in my mind. I'd probably think differently if they would have won the divisional series either of those years.

Well, at least we understand each other and our difference is opinion. I can respect that for sure.

How strong of a correlation do you think there is in baseball between being the better team and winning a five-game series?

I think for a lot of us, it's loose. Losing in the ALDS doesn't mean you put together a bad team. You win a bunch of games in the regular season? Damn, that's a good year. Now you're in the playoffs and hope you get hot/lucky.

That 2016 team was probably the worst team we put into the playoffs over a three-year stretch. Remember, we were tossing Josh Tomlin and Ryan Merritt out there... and nearly swept the ALCS with them.

 

[sportscoach]

Also @CDAV45...

I have won the World Series on OOTP hitting only 76 HRs in the entire regular season. I lead the league in Avg, OBP, 2Bs etc and defensive zone rating... But would you ever say a team with 70 HRs in total could win it all? No.. no one would.

My point is as long as we make the playoffs we can win it all. Having JRam in the lineup gives us the best shot since he can take over games when he is hot. We are a team that normally will win if we score at least 4 runs. We actually on paper have a better roster than the 2003 Marlins yet they won it all. They had unknowns step up and we need the same..

Can we get 4 runs a game without JRam if we trade him?...Right now I would say, no we wouldn't... Also with the signing of Eddie and Hernandez, the FO is stating they are going for it and moving JRam is the opposite of that message. I really do think some of the extra MIF talent may be moved to get a Mitch Haniger or an Adam Miller type (veteran setup/closer) for down the stretch if we are in contention.

I really feel like right now, Arias could be moved before JRam. What kind of talent could a package around Arias get for us?...

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I really feel like right now, Arias could be moved before JRam. What kind of talent could a package around Arias get for us?...

Currently, not very much. He hasn't shown any progress on the field since 2019 due to the pandemic shutting down the minors. If by the trade deadline he is killing it in AA, maybe that would change. But if he is tearing up the minors, do you want to trade 5-6 years of him in Cleveland for the hope of a short post season bump?

 

[sportscoach]

Currently, not very much. He hasn't shown any progress on the field since 2019 due to the pandemic shutting down the minors. If by the trade deadline he is killing it in AA, maybe that would change. But if he is tearing up the minors, do you want to trade 5-6 years of him in Cleveland for the hope of a short post season bump?

You would get a lot more for Arias as the center of a package than you think, but the question is who is available that fits in the cost controlled/team controlled player with 5+ years of control that can play CF...

 

[CDAV45]

You would get a lot more for Arias as the center of a package than you think, but the question is who is available that fits in the cost controlled/team controlled player with 5+ years of control that can play CF...

Be better off trading Gimenez IMO. You're going to get more for him and Rosario can hold down SS until Arias arrives. I'm not suggesting that they trade anyone, just that the return would be greatest by dealing Gimenez.

 

[MadThinker88]

Be better off trading Gimenez IMO. You're going to get more for him and Rosario can hold down SS until Arias arrives. I'm not suggesting that they trade anyone, just that the return would be greatest by dealing Gimenez.

Maybe/ maybe not.
But dealing either guy opens a spot for Brayan Rocchio on the 40 man this November (which gives CLE some depth if needed after 2021)..

 

[WhoAzcue]

My point is as long as we make the playoffs we can win it all. Having JRam in the lineup gives us the best shot since he can take over games when he is hot.

You don't even need to go back to the no-name Marlins for proof, really. Look at the Rays last year. They were within a whisker of a championship on the back or Randy Arozarena. Subtract Arozaerna from the combined Rays' postseason statistics and those numbers would have many around here saying there's no way Tampa could realistically compete, no matter how good their pitching was. When in fact it sometimes only takes one guy pulling everyone else across the line.

 

[CDAV45]

Maybe/ maybe not.
But dealing either guy opens a spot for Brayan Rocchio on the 40 man this November (which gives CLE some depth if needed after 2021)..

Yeah, I have no clue how they're going to handle the roster crunch. Some have suggested playing MIFers all over the place. Problem is almost all the "places" are already taken. The list of MIFers is long. We're talking Gimenez, Rosario, Chang, Hernandez, Freeman, Miller, Bracho, Rocchio, and many more. These aren't just fillers either. Even Chang has to be drawing attention to himself with the way he's swinging the bat. Dude hits the ball extremely hard and looks to have developed some plate discipline too.

 

[sportscoach]

Yeah, I have no clue how they're going to handle the roster crunch. Some have suggested playing MIFers all over the place. Problem is almost all the "places" are already taken. The list of MIFers is long. We're talking Gimenez, Rosario, Chang, Hernandez, Freeman, Miller, Bracho, Rocchio, and many more. These aren't just fillers either. Even Chang has to be drawing attention to himself with the way he's swinging the bat. Dude hits the ball extremely hard and looks to have developed some plate discipline too.

I feel like we almost have to trade for a veteran player with team control in a sense. Question is can we move an Arias with package for a Kyle Lewis type of CF? Aka the young OF with similar team control time of Bieber, Reyes etc.

Side note...Reason why I feel Haniger will get traded with Lewis, Kelenic and Rodriguez so they are looking to find a player to compliment them honestly at the end of the day.

 

[CATS44]

Lets say we trade Jose.

Lets also say that we don't bring back...

Eddie
Hernandez
Shaw
Ollie
Zimmer
Bauers
Gamel
H Ramirez


Lets also say that this off season, we don't add a single FA to improve the club.

We are left with these...

Franmil
Berto
Naylor
Luplow
Gimenez
Amed
Chang
Arias
Mercado
Johnson
Bradley
Jones
Clement
Hedges or a MLB level back up catcher

Bieber
Plesac
Civale
TMac
Allen
Quantrill
Moss
Wittgren
Karinchak
Clase
Maton
Stephan
Hill
Hentges
Morgan
Mejia
Vargas
Nelson

You also have to add...or lose for nothing..

Miller
Freeman
Rocchio
Bracho
Palacios
Valera
Kwan
Lavastida

Scott
Cantillo
Morris
Sandlin
Gose

Thats 45 players...without any return for Jose or anybody on the list above...and without any free agents.

Lets say that we get the proverbial big haul for Jose. It would contain at least three players that would have to be put on the 40 man.

You would be talking about giving away eight talented players in addition to the eight that would not be resigned.

So now lets say that in order to fill two inevitable holes in our lineup and/or bullpen, we sign two mid level FAs....something like Hernandez and Eddie. They would cost us MORE than Jose.

Jose ain't going anywhere.

Instead, we will be trading FOR an immediate upgrade.

 

[DCTribefan]

Let’s say we don’t trade Jose.

 

[MadThinker88]

You also have to add...or lose for nothing..

Miller
Freeman
Rocchio
Bracho
Palacios
Valera
Kwan
Lavastida

Scott
Cantillo
Morris
Sandlin
Gose (<---- not a rule 5 issue)

................

A handful of names to add to the list (all worthy of watching & possibly protecting depending on how they perform or others fail to perform):
Alexfri Planez
Jhonkensy Noel
Jose Tena
Andres Melendez (from the Mark Mathias deal with MKE)

Robert Broom

The CLE farm system is DEEP.

 

[CDAV45]

Lets say we trade Jose.

Lets also say that we don't bring back...

Eddie
Hernandez
Shaw
Ollie
Zimmer
Bauers
Gamel
H Ramirez


Lets also say that this off season, we don't add a single FA to improve the club.

We are left with these...

Franmil
Berto
Naylor
Luplow
Gimenez
Amed
Chang
Arias
Mercado
Johnson
Bradley
Jones
Clement
Hedges or a MLB level back up catcher

Bieber
Plesac
Civale
TMac
Allen
Quantrill
Moss
Wittgren
Karinchak
Clase
Maton
Stephan
Hill
Hentges
Morgan
Mejia
Vargas
Nelson

You also have to add...or lose for nothing..

Miller
Freeman
Rocchio
Bracho
Palacios
Valera
Kwan
Lavastida

Scott
Cantillo
Morris
Sandlin
Gose

Thats 45 players...without any return for Jose or anybody on the list above...and without any free agents.

Lets say that we get the proverbial big haul for Jose. It would contain at least three players that would have to be put on the 40 man.

You would be talking about giving away eight talented players in addition to the eight that would not be resigned.

So now lets say that in order to fill two inevitable holes in our lineup and/or bullpen, we sign two mid level FAs....something like Hernandez and Eddie. They would cost us MORE than Jose.

Jose ain't going anywhere.

Instead, we will be trading FOR an immediate upgrade.

Man, something has to give. I'm all for putting a package together for an upgrade, but where and for who?

I won't get into the idea of a Ramirez trade. We've already discussed that to death. Let's go with your idea that they keep him. Hell, I hope they lock him up again. The list of those that won't return looks pretty accurate to me, although I think they'll pick up Hernandez's option and trade him because MC and CA are good at extracting value. Eddie won't be back unless Naylor fails, and that isn't likely.

The one avenue that we haven't given much thought to is the idea of trading for a young, controlled SP. I don't know who or if it's even possible, but what if they could acquire a talented SP to plug into the 2 or 3 hole? Would it be feasible? It's just a thought brought about by the realization that something has to give and I don't see CA and MC watching that much talent going via the rule V. Will be interesting to see how things play out because I honestly don't have a clue.

The obvious area of need right now is 1B. Acquiring a big bat there would probably make us the odds on favorite for the division. There again.....who?

Whatever happens this organization is sitting pretty going forward. Any success this season is icing on the cake for me so I don't think I could be disappointed in the results regardless.

 

[Lee]

The CLE farm system is DEEP.

So deep, so deep, i put her butt to sleep.

The Indians won, today was a good day.

 

[MattyFos.]

So deep, so deep, i put her butt to sleep.

The Indians won, today was a good day.

Chloroform?