Thoughts on trading Jose Ramirez

[CDAV45]

And a year after your hypothetical trade you’ll be asking if anybody remembers what it was like to have an MVP-caliber 3rd baseman.

Or we’re all discussing how the trade put us over the top. You don’t know, I don’t know, nobody knows.

 

[Derek]

Or we’re all discussing how the trade put us over the top. You don’t know, I don’t know, nobody knows.

First, you need to look at the post I replied to.

Second, obviously, we don’t know for sure what the future holds, but we can be fairly certain that trading Jose makes us worse over the remainder of his contract.

I’m just not interested in punting on this year, and the following two.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I still wouldn't trade him even if they fall out of it. Nolan Jones, Tyler Freeman, Gabriel Arias, Bo Naylor, Owen Miller, Daniel Johnson, and Bobby Bradley all could be impact players by next season. On the pitching side Ethan Hankins and Sam Hentges could be up this year or next if needed and Josh Wolf, Daniel Espino, Tanner Burns, Lenny Torres, and a few others aren't far behind. I've always viewed this as a bit of a transition year, but I think it's realistic to see the Indians back to serious contention next year if a few of these guys push their way through and are supplemented with 1 or 2 veteran FAs (similar to Rosario/Cesar this year).

You are counting on a bunch of guys that have done nothing in the majors to provide an immediate impact to the roster. Jose Ramirez was not ready until his 3rd season to be an impact bat. Expecting enough rookie hitters to do that seems like more desperation or fantasy than a plan. And if 3 or 4 rookies do provide an immediate impact then the transition will be quick and the guys they get for Ramirez can join that stampede of new talent.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

First, you need to look at the post I replied to.

Second, obviously, we don’t know for sure what the future holds, but we can be fairly certain that trading Jose makes us worse over the remainder of his contract.

I’m just not interested in punting on this year, and the following two.

If they are under .500 at the trade deadline and not seriously contending for the playoffs, you are not punting this year because the performance already decided the outcome. And if the team is not in the race this year, what makes it likely they would be next year?

The Angels have Trout signed for a bazillion dollars forever. If he was going to be a free agent soon, having him be MVP on a team with a Double A pitching staff that has no chance to compete and then watch him leave in free agency for nothing would be bad management.

 

[Derek]

If they are under .500 at the trade deadline and not seriously contending for the playoffs, you are not punting this year because the performance already decided the outcome. And if the team is not in the race this year, what makes it likely they would be next year?

The Angels have Trout signed for a bazillion dollars forever. If he was going to be a free agent soon, having him be MVP on a team with a Double A pitching staff that has no chance to compete and then watch him leave in free agency for nothing would be bad management.

I don't quite understand your question, but I think I've made my thoughts pretty clear throughout the thread.

I have no idea what Trout's situation in LA has to do with Jose's status in Cleveland. Also, Jose isn't going to be a free agent soon.

 

[Steve_424]

You are counting on a bunch of guys that have done nothing in the majors to provide an immediate impact to the roster. Jose Ramirez was not ready until his 3rd season to be an impact bat. Expecting enough rookie hitters to do that seems like more desperation or fantasy than a plan. And if 3 or 4 rookies do provide an immediate impact then the transition will be quick and the guys they get for Ramirez can join that stampede of new talent.

By trading Jose Ramirez, you're counting on prospects eventually making enough of an impact at the major league level to make it worth giving up the remaining years you have an MVP in his prime under control. I understand flipping players who are about to leave, but we're talking about a guy who's locked in 3 more seasons. If you're moving guys that soon, when do you actually try to win? Bieber will hit FA the same year, should we trade him now too? Franmil Reyes is only locked in one more year than Ramirez, should we move him now too?

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

I don't quite understand your question, but I think I've made my thoughts pretty clear throughout the thread.

I have no idea what Trout's situation in LA has to do with Jose's status in Cleveland. Also, Jose isn't going to be a free agent soon.

Having great players like Trout only gets you to the playoffs if you have enough other good players at the right spots that you can win about 90 games. We won't know if this 2021 team is competitive for about half a season. If they are not, then Jose has two years left because this year will be done. And they won't let him walk for no return, so he really has one more year as the best player on a team that didn't compete in 2021.

 

[Derek]

By trading Jose Ramirez, you're counting on prospects eventually making enough of an impact at the major league level to make it worth giving up the remaining years you have an MVP in his prime under control. I understand flipping players who are about to leave, but we're talking about a guy who's locked in 3 more seasons. If you're moving guys that soon, when do you actually try to win? Bieber will hit FA the same year, should we trade him now too? Franmil Reyes is only locked in one more year than Ramirez, should we move him now too?

And as I pointed out earlier in the thread, if we were to acquire a young, budding star, we'll be right back in the same position we are now just one year after Jose's contract expires.

Maybe we aren't in the best position to contend this year, but we have a Cy Young contender and an MVP candidate on team-friendly deals with quite a bit of proven talent around them. We should be looking to add missing pieces, not create new holes on our roster.

I'm not willing to give up on this year and next just so we can have Cristian Pache in 2023 and 2024 before trading him because he "only has three years left".

 

[Derek]

Having great players like Trout only gets you to the playoffs if you have enough other good players at the right spots that you can win about 90 games. We won't know if this 2021 team is competitive for about half a season. If they are not, then Jose has two years left because this year will be done. And they won't let him walk for no return, so he really has one more year as the best player on a team that didn't compete in 2021.

Nothing has led me to believe this team won't be competitive this year, and for the foreseeable future. Our situation is not comparable to the Angels teams of the last few years, that's why I was confused.

If we can't work out an extension (I believe there's a good chance we do), then trade him before his final season.

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Nothing has led me to believe this team won't be competitive this year, and for the foreseeable future. Our situation is not comparable to the Angels teams of the last few years, that's why I was confused.

If we can't work out an extension (I believe there's a good chance we do), then trade him before his final season.

If they are competitive they should stay the course. My scenarios all assume they are hitting a down turn due to the loss of 4 very good starters over the past few years. They need top tier starting pitching to carry this very marginal offense. Maybe they have that, but a 162 game season will test it severely.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Nothing has led me to believe this team won't be competitive this year, and for the foreseeable future. Our situation is not comparable to the Angels teams of the last few years, that's why I was confused.

If we can't work out an extension (I believe there's a good chance we do), then trade him before his final season.

When was the last time the Angels had a better record than us?

 

[Steve_424]

When is the last time the Angels had a better record than us?

2014, which was also their last winning season.

 

[CDAV45]

First, you need to look at the post I replied to.

Second, obviously, we don’t know for sure what the future holds, but we can be fairly certain that trading Jose makes us worse over the remainder of his contract.

I’m just not interested in punting on this year, and the following two.

What makes you "fairly certain"? Do you know what the return will be? You're getting defensive when you don't need to be. I'm basically saying that you could be right, but at the same time you could be mistaken. As CBR stated, if it comes to pass that we're not in contention this year then wouldn't it be a good idea to at least explore the offers by next off season?

This lineup has some holes in it, and if they don't address the problem then this team will be lucky to finish 3rd in the division........with or without Jose. I'd love to see them keep him and improve the current roster. That's what I prefer, but clearly this organization is financially limited.

We're going to get a better idea about this team over the next 2 weeks. We're 3-3 after playing the Tigers 4 times and KC twice. After this series we play the White Sox, Reds, White Sox again, Yankees and then the Twins. They better start scoring some fucking runs or we'll be in trouble even if Ramirez is the best player in the league this year.

 

[Derek]

What makes you "fairly certain"? Do you know what the return will be? You're getting defensive when you don't need to be. I'm basically saying that you could be right, but at the same time you could be mistaken. As CBR stated, if it comes to pass that we're not in contention this year then wouldn't it be a good idea to at least explore the offers by next off season?

This lineup has some holes in it, and if they don't address the problem then this team will be lucky to finish 3rd in the division........with or without Jose. I'd love to see them keep him and improve the current roster. That's what I prefer, but clearly this organization is financially limited.

We're going to get a better idea about this team over the next 2 weeks. We're 3-3 after playing the Tigers 4 times and KC twice. After this series we play the White Sox, Reds, White Sox again, Yankees and then the Twins. They better start scoring some fucking runs or we'll be in trouble even if Ramirez is the best player in the league this year.

Not sure where I got defensive. I’m posting my thoughts; same as you.

I just don’t see any way that trading Jose makes us better 2021-23, and that if you start looking to trade your stars with 3 years left on their deal then you might as well give up and shut the whole organization down.

I would at least give it until the deadline in 2022. However, I think this team is in a position to win a lot of ball games this year and next.

 

[The Oi]

Everyone getting very defensive in here.

It’s offensive.