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Thoughts on trading Jose Ramirez

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Jose doesn't strike me as someone who relies on athleticism that will fall of a cliff skills-wise at a certain point. Again, it all depends on how much he wants and for how long. If he wants a 3-4 year extension, I'm certainly interested. I think he'll age pretty well. If he wants Lindor years/money, no thank you.

But regardless, I'm not really interested in moving him now. I understand trading a player when they're close to walking (Lindor) but doing so when you still have them locked up for 3 more years at a steal of a price? Might as well listen to offers on Bieber too if you're going to do that.
 
Steve_424 said:
Ultimately for me it's hard to formulate an opinion on this for two reasons:

1) I have no idea how much Jose would ask for and how long of a deal he'd want.
2) I have no idea how soon, internally, the Indians see themselves as serious contenders again
3) I have no idea how close, if at all, they are to replacing Sherman and/or selling the team.

But right now, I have no interest in dealing him this year or next unless someone absolutely blows them away with an offer. You have an MVP-caliber player locked up through age 28-30 and a team-friendly deal, a top-notch pitching staff, a ton of talented young bats that are close to the bigs, and no significant money tied up in anyone?

This potential lineup has a lot of promise, and you'd have some cash (currently budgeted to E. Rosario/Hernandez) to upgrade 2-3 spots based on how the players below develop this year. You also have some minor league depth to trade from.

C-Roberto Perez
1B-Bobby Bradley
2B-Tyler Freeman
SS-Andres Gimenez
3B-Jose Ramirez
LF-Nolan Jones
CF-Amed Rosario (or trade Rosario for a CF)
RF-Daniel Johnson
DH-Franmil Reyes
Click to expand...

I think the first part of this season will tell us a lot. If the team can't score runs on a consistent basis the offensive holes may be too big to fix before Jose will be gone so better to move him sooner if you get a big return for doing that. Same with pitching. Barring injury, I am confident Bieber is legit for the foreseeable future. Until Civale and Plesac do it for 150-175 innings, their level of impact is unclear. That is even more true for whoever gets settled in the 4th and 5th spots. This offense can't carry marginal pitching anytime soon. If the starters prove to be less than we hoped, Jose can't do enough to make them a playoff team and so it doesn't make sense to keep him so long that his trade value drops.
 
CalBuckeyeRob said:
I think the first part of this season will tell us a lot. If the team can't score runs on a consistent basis the offensive holes may be too big to fix before Jose will be gone so better to move him sooner if you get a big return for doing that. Same with pitching. Barring injury, I am confident Bieber is legit for the foreseeable future. Until Civale and Plesac do it for 150-175 innings, their level of impact is unclear. That is even more true for whoever gets settled in the 4th and 5th spots. This offense can't carry marginal pitching anytime soon. If the starters prove to be less than we hoped, Jose can't do enough to make them a playoff team and so it doesn't make sense to keep him so long that his trade value drops.
Click to expand...

I still wouldn't trade him even if they fall out of it. Nolan Jones, Tyler Freeman, Gabriel Arias, Bo Naylor, Owen Miller, Daniel Johnson, and Bobby Bradley all could be impact players by next season. On the pitching side Ethan Hankins and Sam Hentges could be up this year or next if needed and Josh Wolf, Daniel Espino, Tanner Burns, Lenny Torres, and a few others aren't far behind. I've always viewed this as a bit of a transition year, but I think it's realistic to see the Indians back to serious contention next year if a few of these guys push their way through and are supplemented with 1 or 2 veteran FAs (similar to Rosario/Cesar this year).
 
Do you extend Jose with a plan to move him to 1B or DH in his later years?

I just don't see him being all that interested in playing in Cleveland in his "final" years. More likely to see him come back for a 1B/DH tour ala Nelson Cruz than stick around if you ask me. I expect him to sign with a west coast team after his deal expires, or work out am extension with the team we eventually trade him to.


In the butchered words of our illustrious owner: "enjoy him while he is here."
 
Steve_424 said:
I still wouldn't trade him even if they fall out of it. Nolan Jones, Tyler Freeman, Gabriel Arias, Bo Naylor, Owen Miller, Daniel Johnson, and Bobby Bradley all could be impact players by next season. On the pitching side Ethan Hankins and Sam Hentges could be up this year or next if needed and Josh Wolf, Daniel Espino, Tanner Burns, Lenny Torres, and a few others aren't far behind. I've always viewed this as a bit of a transition year, but I think it's realistic to see the Indians back to serious contention next year if a few of these guys push their way through and are supplemented with 1 or 2 veteran FAs (similar to Rosario/Cesar this year).
Click to expand...
All valid points Steve, but I don't know if I agree or disagree without knowing the return. What if a SP that jumps in front of Espino and Hankins is in the deal to go along with a real corner OFer/1B and another good prospect or 3. It's just hard to know exactly at this time and non of us should look at it in a vacuum. Honestly, I'm good if they want to extend Ramirez, but what jup said is dead on IMO. All I care about is that they don't keep him until he has little to no value if they had no intention of realistically keeping him from the get go. I've been unwavering in that stance because I realize that this organization cannot afford to buy championships.

Because I'm an Indians' fan, I don't get hung up on individual players like Lindor, Kluber, Carrasco, or Ramirez. I'm all about maximizing their value if the timing is right. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's why I wanted them to trade Kluber and Lindor a year earlier. Many here feel that this team is competitive, but I don't share that sentiment. I think there is a piece or 2 missing and that this organizations time starts in 2022 if no additions are made this season. Admittedly, those additions could happen and I support it fully.
 
Criznit said:
Do you extend Jose with a plan to move him to 1B or DH in his later years?

I just don't see him being all that interested in playing in Cleveland in his "final" years. More likely to see him come back for DH tour ala Nelson Cruz than stick around if you ask me.


In the butchered words of our illustrious owner: "enjoy him while he is here."
Click to expand...
He's 5'9". Do you really think he'll play 1B?
 
Criznit said:
More likely DH or maybe 2nd? Maybe he rides it out like Beltre, not really sure.
Click to expand...
I agree that it's hard to say. So much depends on his ability to stay healthy as he ages.
 
Does anybody remember what it was like to have a CF like Kenny Lofton or Grady Sizemore?
I would be happy to trade JRam for a highly regarded CF like that.
We have so many IF prospects I'm sure at least one of them could develop into a well above average 3B.
 
It goes like this, do we have enough MIF talent in the system to replace JRam in theory? Yes we do.. but the question is should we?...

I am notorious in OOTP to move players by the time they are 32ish since that is usually when skills start to go down in the game and often times in real life, so production after that time period normally starts to go down overall so a small market team it's hard to sign someone long term for large money (hence why I want a front loaded contract for JRam with an extension not a regular one).

Now that being said, the fans do need someone that has been kept around long term and that we can follow. So from a PR standpoint we should get him an extension if at all possible.

I don't think his drop off will be very much if at all at the end of the day. I don't see him having to only DH/1B at age 34...

Though in theory the return we could get is also very tempting... so we should win either way at the end of the day. My guess is we do want to extend him because we want to keep a veteran around who is a MVP type of guy, but none of us know if he will push for a max type of deal or do one within reason to stay in Cleveland.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Does anybody remember what it was like to have a CF like Kenny Lofton or Grady Sizemore?
I would be happy to trade JRam for a highly regarded CF like that.
We have so many IF prospects I'm sure at least one of them could develop into a well above average 3B.
Click to expand...
And a year after your hypothetical trade you’ll be asking if anybody remembers what it was like to have an MVP-caliber 3rd baseman.
 
CDAV45 said:
All valid points Steve, but I don't know if I agree or disagree without knowing the return. What if a SP that jumps in front of Espino and Hankins is in the deal to go along with a real corner OFer/1B and another good prospect or 3. It's just hard to know exactly at this time and non of us should look at it in a vacuum. Honestly, I'm good if they want to extend Ramirez, but what jup said is dead on IMO. All I care about is that they don't keep him until he has little to no value if they had no intention of realistically keeping him from the get go. I've been unwavering in that stance because I realize that this organization cannot afford to buy championships.

Because I'm an Indians' fan, I don't get hung up on individual players like Lindor, Kluber, Carrasco, or Ramirez. I'm all about maximizing their value if the timing is right. Right, wrong, or indifferent that's why I wanted them to trade Kluber and Lindor a year earlier. Many here feel that this team is competitive, but I don't share that sentiment. I think there is a piece or 2 missing and that this organizations time starts in 2022 if no additions are made this season. Admittedly, those additions could happen and I support it fully.
Click to expand...

I agree - there are so many factors we just don't know. How much he'd ask, how many years, what a possible return would be, etc. But I'm not trading him now or even next year unless I get an absolute home run deal with ML-ready players in it.

I don't think that's getting hung up on individual players, I think it's seeing how far back trading away Jose Ramirez would set us.
 
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