Trade Deadline Day - 2020

[Obscured By Clouds]

@CavsFTW

No we didn't get a top 5 prospect per say, but Naylor and Quantrill just graduated from being prospects and have big league experience.

Quantril is a guy I know Cleveland wanted to draft if they had the chance too. He fits the mold perfectly for what the brass likes to have in the organization. He also a starter but was switched to the bullpen for this season.

If we did this trade last season, all 5 guys would have been in our top 20 prospects so not sure why that is an issue?

Small market teams survive and compete when they are able to develop non top prospects into legit big leaguers. I know we didn't get the top guy, but i have a good hunch, the three prospects we got will play in the pros.

Our catching depth isn't great, but now we have a gold glove winner and his backup got votes for a gold glove as well when he started. Indians organization values that first over hitting from the position.

Remember when we traded CC Sabathia for LaPorta, one of the highest ranked prospects as a hitter in the minors at that time? There was also a PTBNL named Brantley, who never was a top ranked prospect. LaPorta failed. Brantley became an all star. It's about the players we got in return, not their rankings. You nailed it that last year all 5 would be in our top 20. I find it odd that some are no longer prospects, so their former ranking no longer matters.

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

To answer your question, people use prospect rankings because they're available. Internal evaluations are not. It's really that simple. The Covid-19 incident, the team's dire financial situation, the leverage the Indians had or didn't have, all may or may not have been a factor. Nobody here knows exactly what "internal evaluations" the Indians made, so it's a moot point. Most fans don't grade trades based on internal evaluations. Feigning shock when they don't is what's really weird, imo.

Why not read scouting reports on these guys, instead?

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Remember when we traded CC Sabathia for LaPorta, one of the highest ranked prospects as a hitter in the minors at that time? There was also a PTBNL named Brantley, who never was a top ranked prospect. LaPorta failed. Brantley became an all star. It's about the players we got in return, not their rankings. You nailed it that last year all 5 would be in our top 20. I find it odd that some are no longer prospects, so their former ranking no longer matters.

Or Andy Marte, who I think was the #1 prospect in baseball at a certain point

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

Or Andy Marte, who I think was the #1 prospect in baseball at a certain point

#9, and our rotation consists of not a single ranked player other than Tristan, and yet it's the best in baseball?

 

[Derek]

I think it's understandable to look at the prospect rankings, but in this case, I actually feel like they're being ignored.

Naylor and Quantrill are both 1st round picks from the last five years who were top 100 prospects prior to being called up and losing their prospect status.

Isn't that what people were clamoring for? Talented young players ready to contribute at the MLB level?

Arias seems like a lock to get ranked sooner or later and a lot of people seem even higher on Cantillo. There are few, if any, people I trust more on prospect evals than @BimboColesHair, so his write up got me pretty excited.

 

[NorthCoastBias]

According to Ken Rosenthal, the Indians did make a run at Starling Marte. Just couldn't manage to line up with what the Diamondbacks wanted in return.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

According to Ken Rosenthal, the Indians did make a run at Starling Marte. Just couldn't manage to line up with what the Diamondbacks wanted in return.

The front office knows team needs just as well as we do, and did the right thing in terms of getting a bidding war going. If they didn't get the return some thought they should, it's most likely because there wasn't such a deal to be had.

 

[LL3]

Why not read scouting reports on these guys, instead?

Yeah, I did not think we were "most fans" here -- be elite! I'll hang up and listen to your response

 

[LL3]

The front office knows team needs just as well as we do, and did the right thing in terms of getting a bidding war going. If they didn't get the return some thought they should, it's most likely because there wasn't such a deal to be had.

Marte was the only "plus" outfielder that changed hands. I would have liked to have had him, but he is likely not a difference maker to push significant chips in to get. Would we have picked up his 12.5 M option -- probably not. We did not need him for 27 regular season games remaining, it would be his impact on the short playoff series. What's his potential impact there and what is it worth? They made an evaluation -- I am ok with that part.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

The front office knows team needs just as well as we do, and did the right thing in terms of getting a bidding war going. If they didn't get the return some thought they should, it's most likely because there wasn't such a deal to be had.

I agree. I also am coming to the realization that we had to make this move from a financial side as well. Unfortunately the front office is not able to make pure baseball moves. If the Indians owners had deeper pockets/higher revenue we would not have been in the position to have to make this trade, we could have instead been pure buyers. We picked up young players with team control on low salaries, you look at our starting rotation and Carrasco is the only starter making more then 1M, and we only have 4 pitchers making over 1M, Hand @ 7M, Perez @ 3M, Wittgren at 1.1MM. It is crazy when you think about it.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I agree. I also am coming to the realization that we had to make this move from a financial side as well. Unfortunately the front office is not able to make pure baseball moves. If the Indians owners had deeper pockets/higher revenue we would not have been in the position to have to make this trade, we could have instead been pure buyers. We picked up young players with team control on low salaries, you look at our starting rotation and Carrasco is the only starter making more then 1M, and we only have 4 pitchers making over 1M, Hand @ 7M, Perez @ 3M, Wittgren at 1.1MM. It is crazy when you think about it.

There are always those fans who criticize deals that are "building for the future", like when you trade back in the NFL draft to get more picks in future years. But then those same fans tend to forget how much of a current rosters was created exactly by such trades made in the past. Patriots supported a dynasty in large part through knowing exactly when to get rid of current talent to restock for the future. It was a continuous process for them, and they reaped the benefits of that for a long time.

 

[Arketebel]

Yeah, I did not think we were "most fans" here -- be elite! I'll hang up and listen to your response

I migrated here after my previous home, CasualTribeFollower.com, didn't have much discussion.

So I came here to demand in depth player information at all levels.

Feed me, Seymour!

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

There are always those fans who criticize deals that are "building for the future", like when you trade back in the NFL draft to get more picks in future years. But then those same fans tend to forget how much of a current rosters was created exactly by such trades made in the past.

This is very similar to many successful deals the Indians have made in the past. My first reaction was "How come we didn't get one of their top three prospects?" but now I'm coming around. One thing I like is that the Indians are very familiar with the Padres farm system and I'm sure the Pads gave them the opportunity to pick and choose who they wanted. Cantillo in particular seems to fit the mold of pitchers the Indians successfully developed in recent years. Antonetti confirmed that the Indians have been scouting these guys since the Hand/Cimber deal.

It was supposed to be difficult to make trades this year due to the lack of a minor league season but it wasn't an issue in this case because the Indians have been evaluating this guys for a coupe of years, including when they made the Bauer deal. Like another poster said, they had a shopping list and knew who they wanted.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Taking a look at Naylor's hitting profile at Fangraphs, he kind of reminds me of a left-handed Yandy Diaz. Last year in 253 AB's with the Padres his ground ball percentage was 53%, fly ball 30%, line drive 17%. This year it's about the same. IOW, he hits the ball on the ground a lot similar to Yandy.

Last year his pull percentage was 39%, center was 37%, and opposite field 24%. This year in only 37 AB's it's the same; 36/39/24. He pulls the ball a little more than Yandy, but he's basically a guy who uses the middle of the field and opposite field almost two-thirds of the time.

So like Yandy he's a guy who looks like a big time power hitter but who sprays the ball around and doesn't pull or put it in the air that much. He hits more like a little guy in that respect.

In Yandy's two seasons with the Tribe his ground ball percentage was 54-59% while his fly ball percentage was 18-23%, so Yandy was a more extreme ground ball hitter than Naylor. Yandy's pull percentage was 25-29% whereas Naylor is in the high 30's.

Not that you can't be successful with that approach. This year Yandy's ground ball and oppo percentages are the highest of his career at 66% and 42%, respectively. He's hitting .307 with a wRC+ of 136. Base hits are good even if they are ground balls into right field.

Naylor has 10 hits this year, 8 of which are singles. He sprays the ball around and generally hits ground balls and line drives, putting only 30% in the air. He's a left-handed Yandy Diaz only not as extreme. He only has 9 home runs in 291 at-bats which projects to 18 for a full season of playing every day. But I don't know how many long drives to right field were caught in Petco that would have been out at the Prog.

My guess is his upside is a Michael Brantley type who hits around .300 with 25 home runs. Naylor has shown good plate discipline in the minors with an 11% walk rate. I'm seeing kind of a Brantley/Diaz hybrid from what he have on him so far.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

There are always those fans who criticize deals that are "building for the future", like when you trade back in the NFL draft to get more picks in future years. But then those same fans tend to forget how much of a current rosters was created exactly by such trades made in the past. Patriots supported a dynasty in large part through knowing exactly when to get rid of current talent to restock for the future. It was a continuous process for them, and they reaped the benefits of that for a long time.

I agree, I for one remember all to well the the baseball we had to watch in the early 2000's. From 2002 to 2012, we only had 2 winning season out of 11. the last 7 season we have had a winning record every year and made the playoffs 4 times, and last year won 93 games and missed out. The moves the front office has made should keep us as a plus .500 team for the forcible future, and really we have a team that can make a deep playoff run the next few years. When you really step back and look at it, we have been very luck to see good baseball with one of the lower payrolls in baseball. (this year we have the 6th lowest payroll in baseball)