Trade ideas: Offseason edition

[The Human Q-Tip]

That's such an incredibly weak take. You just went back and looked up two guys who were top 10 picks as small forwards who were disappointments, in an effort to support your argument. For every guy you list, I can find a guy who did make it...Tracy McGrady, Zach LaVine, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Giannis, Patrick Williams & Isaac Okoro (both look like they'll make it)...the list goes on.

Every year there are guys who hit and there are guys that miss. That's the draft. The risk has become magnified as prospects have gotten younger & younger. Kuminga re-classified from the class of 2021 to 2020, so he's a year younger than many of these guys.

If you want to play it safe, then pick a guy like Chris Duarte, COrey Kispert, or Davion Mitchell every year and you never take a big chance. That's what Wayne Embry used to do when he was Cavs GM. He hated taking underclassmen and the risk that came along with it.

You're either a GM who plays it safe, takes the guy with a lower ceiling, or you accept the risk and take a guy with a higher ceiling, hoping you can develop him. That's what the Warriors have done with Kuminga. Only time will tell if he hits or not, but you can't write him off because Josh Jackson & Stanley Johnson didn't make it. That's ridiculous...

I generally agree with you as long as the risk is on the side of "will he develop those skills?" rather than intangibles such as motor/desire/attitude, etc.. I think taking risks on head cases almost never pays off for the team that drafts the guy.

 

[sailfish]

I didn't look it up. Those 2 popped into my head first. And Tatum was not raw at all coming out of Duke. Tatum does not belong with the rest you listed. For every hit there are multiple misses. I don't see the upside. The guys you listed showed something. Kuminga literally showed us nothing in the GLeague. He's a shittier version of Wiggins as a prospect. He's not as athletic as Wiggins and is somehow worse as a shooter.

As for safe picks you listed I don't think Mitchell is a safe pick at all. I think he's going to flop forthe Kings. Kings basically took someone whos peak is Pat Beverly in the top 10 but likely won't even be Pat Bev.

As for risk vs reward with drafting. Sometimes there is a player with a Higher Floor and similar ceiling in this case (Moses Moody, Bouknight, Franz Wagner) all have similar ceilings to Kuminga but also have vastly higher floors.

Kuminga showed nothing in the G-League?!? As an 18 year old, when most kids his age are popping pimples and in their senior year of high school, he averaged (per 40 minutes) playing against grown men:

19.3 ppg, 8,8 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.2 spg, & 1 bpg

How is that showing nothing? You may not like the guy as a prospect, but was just drafted 7th overall in the top professional basketball league in the world for a reason. Sorry, but I'll side with Warriors GM, Bob Myers, and others over you....no offense.

 

[sailfish]

I generally agree with you as long as the risk is on the side of "will he develop those skills?" rather than intangibles such as motor/desire/attitude, etc.. I think taking risks on head cases almost never pays off for the team that drafts the guy.

Yes, I agree. I haven't seen anything to suggest that Kuminga is a head case either. The only guy that had that attached to him, to my knowledge, was Jalen Johnson. The NBA draft isn't quite like the MLB draft, where everyone heads to the minors and has to play their way to the majors. Some may spend some time in the G-league, but, with as young as these kids are, most of them are maturing on the job and need some guidance & veteran leadership.

 

[NMCav]

Kuminga showed nothing in the G-League?!? As an 18 year old, mind you, he averaged (per 40 minutes):

19.3 ppg, 8,8 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.2 spg, & 1 bpg

How is that showing nothing? You may not like the guy as a prospect, but was just drafted 7th overall in the top professional basketball league in the world for a reason. Sorry, but I'll side with Warriors GM, Bob Myers, and others over you....no offense.

He had terrible efficiency. Those are empty stats. He shot 38/62/24 from the field. He was drafted because he's super athletic. He doesn't have much skill and has shit basketball instincts. Guys like this get drafted every year because teams say what if we can coach him up. Thats great but you can't coach up everything that Kuminga lacks.

You like Kuminga and that's fine. He is not a good player as of today. NBA teams want to continue to dream. Let them. Doesn't mean I'm going to buy into a shit player having huge upside because the media tells me he does.

 

[sailfish]

He had terrible efficiency. Those are empty stats. He shot 38/62/24 from the field. He was drafted because he's super athletic. He doesn't have much skill and has shit basketball instincts. Guys like this get drafted every year because teams say what if we can coach him up. Thats great but you can't coach up everything that Kuminga lacks.

You like Kuminga and that's fine. He is not a good player as of today. NBA teams want to continue to dream. Let them. Doesn't mean I'm going to buy into a shit player having huge upside because the media tells me he does.

Just curious, did people look at you as an 18 year old and say, he's a bad human being, his work ethic is crap, and he has no chance of being successful? I really don't understand being so critical of someone so young, doing something that those of us on this board wished that we had the talent to?

 

[NMCav]

Just curious, did people look at you as an 18 year old and say, he's a bad human being, his work ethic is crap, and he has no chance of being successful?

I never said he was a bad person or has bad work ethic. He doesn't have basketball instincts and lacks skill. He can be very successful in life. It likely won't be basketball success however.

 

[The Great Hambino]

I think you may be right about that. It's kind of a patient, long term play. It will probably cost us a lot of wins this coming year though.

Unless Sexton can really increase his 3 point frequency and maintain his 3pt % our floor spacing is going to be really bad and teams are going to just pack the paint against us.

Somewhere we are going to need to get consistent 3pt shooting or our spacing is going to be a huge problem since I don't think we can rely on Mobley, Allen or Okoro to space the floor for us. It's really going to come down to Sexton and Garland being able to take a lot of 3's and hit them at a good rate.

IMO, I think part of Sexton's future, both here in general and as far as what we may be willing to pay him, will depend on his ability to become a volume three point shooter. You look around the league and teams like Portland have their two guards taking nearly 20 threes a game. ours took 9.

 

[sailfish]

I never said he was a bad person or has bad work ethic. He doesn't have basketball instincts and lacks skill. He can be very successful in life. It likely won't be basketball success however.

So, I suppose it doesn't matter that the kid has only been in the US for 5 years and is relatively new to the game of basketball either?

 

[NMCav]

So, I suppose it doesn't matter that the kid has only been in the US for 5 years and is relatively new to the game of basketball either?

Keep making excuses. No real reason to keep talking about this. Clearly we have vastly different thoughts on Kuminga.

 

[sailfish]

Keep making excuses. No real reason to keep talking about this. Clearly we have vastly different thoughts on Kuminga.

Agreed. Just a suggestion, but why don't we give Kuminga a chance to be successful, on his own merits, before we write him off?

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Agreed. Just a suggestion, but why don't we give Kuminga a chance to be successful, on his own merits, before we write him off?

Bruh, someone saying they think Kuminga is going to suck isn't the same as "us writing him off."

 

[sailfish]

Bruh, someone saying they think Kuminga is going to suck isn't the same as "us writing him off."

I see it pretty much the same. The kid is obviously very talented, was just picked #7 overall in the draft by a respected NBA GM, and I really have no idea why you all are bashing him? I get that you didn't want him to be a Cavalier. Fine, but let it be. The slate is wiped clean and let's see what happens now.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I see it pretty much the same.

I'm not surprised.

This also doesn't make it so.

The kid is obviously very talented

To you he is.

To the other person, he may not be.

was just picked #7 overall in the draft

True

by a respected NBA GM

Your opinion, again. I'll also say that because someone you view as an authority figure believes something that aligns with your viewpoint, that doesn't inherently make it true.

and I really have no idea why you all are bashing him?

There are lots of people who don't agree with you on him, and the discussion would be so much better if you acknowledged that their viewpoints have equal merit to your own. For example, I don't think Kuminga is skilled enough to ever pan out in the NBA. If I see someone who I don't feel can shoot or dribble, I think he's a very limited prospect, especially to go in the top 10 of the draft.

I get that you didn't want him to be a Cavalier. Fine, but let it be. The slate is wiped clean and let's see what happens now.

This is meaningless babble.

 

[sailfish]

I'm not surprised.

This also doesn't make it so.


To you he is.

To the other person, he may not be.



True


Your opinion, again. I'll also say that because someone you view as an authority figure believes something that aligns with your viewpoint, that doesn't inherently make it true.


There are lots of people who don't agree with you on him, and the discussion would be so much better if you acknowledged that their viewpoints have equal merit to your own. For example, I don't think Kuminga is skilled enough to ever pan out in the NBA. If I see someone who I don't feel can shoot or dribble, I think he's a very limited prospect, especially to go in the top 10 of the draft.


This is meaningless babble.

Do I think that your opinion is more meaningful than that of NBA GM's and other draft experts, who are being paid to either offer there opinion or make these decisions?? Not to burst your bubble, but I don't.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Do I think that your opinion is more meaningful than that of NBA GM's and other draft experts, who are being paid to either offer there opinion or make these decisions?? Not to burst your bubble, but I don't.

Well, absolutely nobody intimated that you should do that.

Do you want to try again, or should we just put this one to rest?