WWE/NXT/AEW/NJPW Thread

[pr26]

They have backstage footage of Punk after the match airing on Rampage tonight, and another Dynamite to build the All Out main event. I get the “wtf is happening with this ppv” vibe, but I think that’s the point. They popped a great rating for Dynamite, every wrestling talking head is discussing this in detail, and the IWC is on fire trying to wrap their heads around what’s next? I personally love the unpredictability.

My best guess is MJF gets involved. His return = hype that requires minimal build. He either challenges Mox for All Out and wins via help from Punk, or helps Punk win a rematch. Punk/MJF mega heel faction vs BCC is money with tons of amazing match ups.

 

[Kbiz]

They have backstage footage of Punk after the match airing on Rampage tonight, and another Dynamite to build the All Out main event. I get the “wtf is happening with this ppv” vibe, but I think that’s the point. They popped a great rating for Dynamite, every wrestling talking head is discussing this in detail, and the IWC is on fire trying to wrap their heads around what’s next? I personally love the unpredictability.

My best guess is MJF gets involved. His return = hype that requires minimal build. He either challenges Mox for All Out and wins via help from Punk, or helps Punk win a rematch. Punk/MJF mega heel faction vs BCC is money with tons of amazing match ups.

I've been fantasy booking a MJF/Punk team up for the last 6 months in my head so I am onboard with that direction moving forward as I believe MJF will eventually take the title off of Punk for his first championship run (assuming they're both just working the gimmick brother and not actually leaving anytime soon).

With that said, I just don't understand what was the point of the Wednesday matchup, aside from a cheap ratings pop, if they were planning to have Mox v. Punk be the main event to begin with. Just poor booking and has already taken the shine out of the matchup for me out of mere confusion, unless the plan is to tell a larger story at All Out with some fuckery and Punk cheats to win. I feel like we are in for a bigger surprise than that even if they run it back.

Still a weird decision to me. I don't like that TK is letting all this meta drama, blur the lines storytelling drive angles as of late. If this a very longterm heel turn setup for Punk that has been worked out since he was injured, I'll eat crow but it just seems that since Omega left, aside from the BCC and JAS feud, everything else has felt clunky.

Why isn't Wardlow defending his belt in his first championship feud at All Out? Why are The Acclaimed (whom I love) randomly getting a title shot at All Out? The most intriguing aspect going in is the trios titles and that's mostly due to Omega returning and the inevitable feud with the UE coming to fruition, which was already a no-brainer feud.

I love AEW but these last few months, the build to forbidden door and the fallout, feels like just a lot of filler. Aside from FTR getting their dues finally, I've been underwhelmed as of late.

 

[CBBI]

I don’t believe the match was ever announced for the PPV, it was just the assumption. Might have been the backstage plan, but they never said the bout would occur at All Out.

Ok fine I do have something for you.

On the 8/17 Dynamite, Punk said verbatim "We've got a match coming up at the PPV where I'll soundly defeat you." to Moxley's face during their dueling promo and pull apart angle.

And later that same night before they announced the match was being moved to Dynamite, AEW's own Twitter account sent out the video of Moxley attacking Nese that said "Moxley has no intention of waiting until #AEWAllOut" with the announcers also saying "Why wait until All Out? Do it right now!"

If you want to say that was all simply assumption that we shouldn't take seriously because AEW didn't formally run a graphic saying that was the main event of the PPV, so be it, but everyone - the talent involved in the match, the announcers on the show and obviously the fans, were pretty well clued in that it was the main event of the PPV.

Top of the hour isn’t a dead zone time slot. Middle of the hour right before the main event is. That’s usually where they throw the women (which I don’t agree with)

This feels like you're focusing on the wrong thing and arguing semantics here. Whether or not 9 to 9:20 is a "dead zone" or not is less relevant to the fact the much larger point that they didn't even hype the match during the show and more or less buried it in a spot on the card that wasn't the main event.

Before they ever even talked about the fact that they were having a UNIFICATION MATCH ON FREE TV - which if they really wanted to pop a rating, they would promoted the ever living shit out of it in every single segment from segment 1 all the way until the entrances begin in the final segment to get people watching to tell their friends to tune in. But AEW didn't do that. They, in fact, went out of their way to announce that the trios match was closing the show as the main event even before they said anything about ostensibly the literal biggest match they could put on as a company right now. They treated it like a total afterthought for an hour and then immediately moved on to other business when the segment was over.

They could have built the entire episode around this match, done insert promos, talked to other wrestlers, done all sorts of hype and they did nothing. It was just another random middle of the card segment that was immediately moved on from the moment it went to commercial.

I don’t see the issue. The main event was an absolute banger that sets up a showdown next week between two of the biggest wrestling stars in the world.

Even if the main event was a banger, and admittedly my mileage varies on these no one sells anything multi-man spotfests anyway - is it bigger than unifying the freaking AEW world title? I don't think so.

If that match doesn’t interest you, fine. The rest of the card rocks. I’m interested to see what they do with it. There’s a compelling story to be told. Let’s hope they tell it.

I’d be shocked if they went with the “Punk overcomes the odds” line because he’s been 100% heel since he returned.

The card, at least to me, is the weakest they've ever had on paper. But they generally deliver in the ring even if the setups aren't any good. So I'm not too concerned about that part.

The annoying part for me is that the Punk/Moxley unifying titles match actually was a legitimate drawing match. It had never been done in AEW and hadn't been done period in almost 10 years. It was something I was very interested in before Wednesday. But now I've seen it and it was uncompetitive. If this really was a shoot, then why would I now pay to see the same match I just saw 10 days ago that wasn't competitive the first time I saw it?

And look maybe I'm the dummy here, but isn't the point of wrestling to suspend your disbelief and treat what you're watching like it's real?

Personally, if I watched two guys fight - whether it was boxing or MMA or whatever combat sport you prefer - on free TV and one guy absolutely destroyed the other guy in 3 minutes flat and on top of that the guy who lost was carried out like he needed to have his leg amputated, am I going to really be interested in watching those two fight again 10 days later? Only the second time I'm being asked to pay $60 to see it? Looking at it logically, the main event is just less appealing than it was before.

 

[pr26]

I agree if Punk and Mox is a straight up rematch, and the squash doesn’t feed into a larger story, the booking of that match on free TV right before the ppv is odd. However, we have no idea if that’s the case. Believing the match was a ratings pop + larger storyline device to build the main event until I see differently. It hasn’t been officially booked yet.

I think AEW has been using dirt sheets to work the fans, and I love it. I haven’t been worked since I was a kid. I know the meta stuff immediately gets associated with Russo, but I’m giving TK some credit here and willing to see how these things pay off. If they don’t, I’ll be criticizing too. Plus, match quality is still out of this world.

 

[Real Deal]

Word is Bray Wyatt is on his way back and has more creative control with HHH.

The guy really is a good worker and a better talker. Just never got the correct push that made him dominate and I'm not sure that's his fault. It's not hard putting somebody over completely. Just tell the correct story and you'll make your own CM Punk, Undertaker, HBK, Steve Austin, etc.

 

[CBBI]

To be honest, AEW could have done the exact same Punk/Moxley squash match they just did on Wednesday at the PPV and it would have been great.

Instead of doing the match on TV, just do the same "he re-injured himself on a kick" angle and do the exact same "Punk is carried off like he needs his leg amputated" angle.

Then on TV this week coming up Punk comes out on crutches and says he's hurt and doesn't feel confident about his chances against an on-fire Moxley at the PPV, but goddamn it it's in Chicago and he wouldn't miss a fight in Chicago for anything.

Then have Moxley destroy him in 3 minutes at the PPV in the main event.

Then coming out of the PPV you have a million directions you can go that don't involve forcing the fans to pay for the same match uncompetitive match they just saw.

 

[pr26]

To be honest, AEW could have done the exact same Punk/Moxley squash match they just did on Wednesday at the PPV and it would have been great.

Instead of doing the match on TV, just do the same "he re-injured himself on a kick" angle and do the exact same "Punk is carried off like he needs his leg amputated" angle.

Then on TV this week coming up Punk comes out on crutches and says he's hurt and doesn't feel confident about his chances against an on-fire Moxley at the PPV, but goddamn it it's in Chicago and he wouldn't miss a fight in Chicago for anything.

Then have Moxley destroy him in 3 minutes at the PPV in the main event.

Then coming out of the PPV you have a million directions you can go that don't involve forcing the fans to pay for the same match uncompetitive match they just saw.

I would much rather have a 3 minute squash on free tv, and have that being used to develop a story for the main event at a ppv, then pay money anticipating that match and get a 3 minute squash. Personal opinion.

 

[Derek]

Ok fine I do have something for you.

On the 8/17 Dynamite, Punk said verbatim "We've got a match coming up at the PPV where I'll soundly defeat you." to Moxley's face during their dueling promo and pull apart angle.

And later that same night before they announced the match was being moved to Dynamite, AEW's own Twitter account sent out the video of Moxley attacking Nese that said "Moxley has no intention of waiting until #AEWAllOut" with the announcers also saying "Why wait until All Out? Do it right now!"

Here’s how I interpreted all that:
They were going to fight at All Out, but they couldn’t keep them apart, and they kept hijacking the show with their brawls.

In my opinion, they told a story that made sense for them to have an immediate bout.

If you want to say that was all simply assumption that we shouldn't take seriously because AEW didn't formally run a graphic saying that was the main event of the PPV, so be it, but everyone - the talent involved in the match, the announcers on the show and obviously the fans, were pretty well clued in that it was the main event of the PPV.



This feels like you're focusing on the wrong thing and arguing semantics here. Whether or not 9 to 9:20 is a "dead zone" or not is less relevant to the fact the much larger point that they didn't even hype the match during the show and more or less buried it in a spot on the card that wasn't the main event.

Before they ever even talked about the fact that they were having a UNIFICATION MATCH ON FREE TV - which if they really wanted to pop a rating, they would promoted the ever living shit out of it in every single segment from segment 1 all the way until the entrances begin in the final segment to get people watching to tell their friends to tune in. But AEW didn't do that. They, in fact, went out of their way to announce that the trios match was closing the show as the main event even before they said anything about ostensibly the literal biggest match they could put on as a company right now. They treated it like a total afterthought for an hour and then immediately moved on to other business when the segment was over.

They could have built the entire episode around this match, done insert promos, talked to other wrestlers, done all sorts of hype and they did nothing. It was just another random middle of the card segment that was immediately moved on from the moment it went to commercial.



Even if the main event was a banger, and admittedly my mileage varies on these no one sells anything multi-man spotfests anyway - is it bigger than unifying the freaking AEW world title? I don't think so.



The card, at least to me, is the weakest they've ever had on paper. But they generally deliver in the ring even if the setups aren't any good. So I'm not too concerned about that part.

The annoying part for me is that the Punk/Moxley unifying titles match actually was a legitimate drawing match. It had never been done in AEW and hadn't been done period in almost 10 years. It was something I was very interested in before Wednesday. But now I've seen it and it was uncompetitive. If this really was a shoot, then why would I now pay to see the same match I just saw 10 days ago that wasn't competitive the first time I saw it?

And look maybe I'm the dummy here, but isn't the point of wrestling to suspend your disbelief and treat what you're watching like it's real?

Personally, if I watched two guys fight - whether it was boxing or MMA or whatever combat sport you prefer - on free TV and one guy absolutely destroyed the other guy in 3 minutes flat and on top of that the guy who lost was carried out like he needed to have his leg amputated, am I going to really be interested in watching those two fight again 10 days later? Only the second time I'm being asked to pay $60 to see it? Looking at it logically, the main event is just less appealing than it was before.

You mention combat sports, and I think that’s a great parallel, actually. Sometimes title fights are short, and one guy gets caught having a bad day. It’s Rocky III, Punk just needs to go train with MJF on the beach.

They’ve made a point to have the Trios tournament matches in the main events each week. Especially with Ospreay involved, and Omega coming out after, it makes sense to me to have that main event.

Regardless, it just sounds like you just have different tastes here, because none of the things that bothered you, bothered me. Mox/Punk on Wednesday has me more excited than ever to find out what’s going to happen next.

To each his own. I hope they find a way to entertain both of us. Still, I can’t believe you’re saying this is the weakest card they’ve ever had on paper. That’s just absurd. For me, I think it might be one of the most stacked.

 

[CBBI]

I would much rather have a 3 minute squash on free tv, and have that being used to develop a story for the main event at a ppv, then pay money anticipating that match and get a 3 minute squash. Personal opinion.

If I had to guess, I'd say that's the exact reason why Tony Khan didn't do it that way. Out of fear that it would make the fans feel like they were "cheated" out of a big match that they paid money to see.

But I'd counter that by saying that AEW pay per views are far too long as it is, and a super hot 3 minute squash at the end of what will end up being 5 hour show when you include the pre show wouldn't be nearly as damaging as he thinks.

Beyond that, the very best performing AEW pay per views draw about 120K to 125K in PPV buys at $60 apiece. Do the quick math and that's roughly $7.5M in PPV revenue from each event with AEW splitting that at least 60/40 with the PPV providers, so we'll overshoot it and say they're probably clearing about 4M on each of their four PPVs a year. Call it $16M in profit on PPV buys.

Their current television contract pays them $45M a year and they're certainly hoping for even more than that when they are up for renewal in 2024. So ultimately which is more important to their bottom line? Their PPV business or their television business?

 

[Derek]

I wish I would have gone up to the Wolstein on Wednesday just so I could have broke out this gem after Mox/Punk:

 

[CBBI]

You mention combat sports, and I think that’s a great parallel, actually. Sometimes title fights are short, and one guy gets caught having a bad day. It’s Rocky III, Punk just needs to go train with MJF on the beach.

The Rocky III rematch didn't happen 10 days later though

 

[Derek]

The Rocky III rematch didn't happen 10 days later though

It happened 1 hour later!

 

[pr26]

If I had to guess, I'd say that's the exact reason why Tony Khan didn't do it that way. Out of fear that it would make the fans feel like they were "cheated" out of a big match that they paid money to see.

But I'd counter that by saying that AEW pay per views are far too long as it is, and a super hot 3 minute squash at the end of what will end up being 5 hour show when you include the pre show wouldn't be nearly as damaging as he thinks.

Beyond that, the very best performing AEW pay per views draw about 120K to 125K in PPV buys at $60 apiece. Do the quick math and that's roughly $7.5M in PPV revenue from each event with AEW splitting that at least 60/40 with the PPV providers, so we'll overshoot it and say they're probably clearing about 4M on each of their four PPVs a year. Call it $16M in profit on PPV buys.

Their current television contract pays them $45M a year and they're certainly hoping for even more than that when they are up for renewal in 2024. So ultimately which is more important to their bottom line? Their PPV business or their television business?

If I had to guess, I'd say that's the exact reason why Tony Khan didn't do it that way. Out of fear that it would make the fans feel like they were "cheated" out of a big match that they paid money to see.

But I'd counter that by saying that AEW pay per views are far too long as it is, and a super hot 3 minute squash at the end of what will end up being 5 hour show when you include the pre show wouldn't be nearly as damaging as he thinks.

Beyond that, the very best performing AEW pay per views draw about 120K to 125K in PPV buys at $60 apiece. Do the quick math and that's roughly $7.5M in PPV revenue from each event with AEW splitting that at least 60/40 with the PPV providers, so we'll overshoot it and say they're probably clearing about 4M on each of their four PPVs a year. Call it $16M in profit on PPV buys.

Their current television contract pays them $45M a year and they're certainly hoping for even more than that when they are up for renewal in 2024. So ultimately which is more important to their bottom line? Their PPV business or their television business?

Both are important….which is why popping the rating and using the match to build drama around the ppv main event is the best of both worlds IMO. Again, if we see a straight up rematch with no added drama at the ppv, I’ll agree with you about the booking decision. It just sure seems to me like their setting up a specific story that should pay off Wednesday or at All Out.

 

[CBBI]

Here’s how I interpreted all that:
They were going to fight at All Out, but they couldn’t keep them apart, and they kept hijacking the show with their brawls.

In my opinion, they told a story that made sense for them to have an immediate bout.

Believe it or not, I really don't have a problem at all doing the squash match on free TV. The storyline of match itself was totally fine. On fire babyface steamrolled an injured and weakened opponent. That part really all worked fine.

I obviously didn't agree at all with the way it was presented as an afterthought (in my opinion of course) within the two-hour broadcast and I certainly wouldn't do the immediate rematch on PPV.

I'm not knocking Moxley or Punk either. Like that story they told was good, it was just presented oddly/poorly and it seems like they're going to make it worse by doing an immediate rematch that they shouldn't be doing.

To each his own, I don't really see how one guy getting killed in a fight in a mere 3 minutes and getting carried off like he's crippled after it's over would make anyone want to see that guy fight the same guy again within 2 weeks. That's all.

 

[Jack Brickman]

To each his own, I don't really see how one guy getting killed in a fight in a mere 3 minutes and getting carried off like he's crippled after it's over would make anyone want to see that guy fight the same guy again within 2 weeks. That's all.

We've literally seen guys stretchered out during a match and returning to finish it the same night. I don't see how Punk rebounding two weeks later seems insane or impossible. It's wrestling.