WWE/NXT/AEW/NJPW Thread

[Kbiz]

Those were issues, yes, but it’s amazing how once HHH took over, and guys started getting more in-ring time, that the product got significantly better.

For example, word is we’re getting Zayn/McIntyre tonight.

Two months ago, I’d be expecting a 4 minute squash. Now, I’m excited for it. Sami isn’t going to win, but I’m betting he gets the chance to put on a show.

It's amazing that adding more wrestling to a wrestling show makes it better. Vince really got up his own ass the last 10 years with shoehorned entertainment angles which never allowed for actual feuds outside of the big belts to feel important. "We make movies" - that was the case in the late 90s but you also had natural star power. The last 10 years it's like he's been making shows for the CW network, appealing to the lowest (yet largest) common denominator.

It's almost like VKM doesn't respect children enough to realize that if you prioritize the in-ring product as much as the entertainment, good is still good. 1998 10 year old me never thought, "I could really use some more Goldust vignettes. What insane asylum did the oddities escape from?" Just get these weird looking people in the ring and tell your stories there.

 

[Derek]

This fucking ruled

 

[CBBI]

This fucking ruled

I mean the move is incredible and kudos to them both for pulling it off safely.

And I know this gonna make me sound like a bitter jaded asshole, but look at the timestamp on that tweet. 9:51PM. That means the move happened at about 9:50PM. That means this match went at least 8 more minutes after a move that if this were real - and again we're supposed to suspend our disbelief and treat this like it's real - would have left Osprey in a goddamn wheelchair.

Not only was this massively incredible looking super devastating move NOT the finish, the guy who took the move was doing a front flip off the top rope and landing on his feet laughing like a minute later. He also went on to win the match without actually, you know, ever selling his neck or anything else. And I'm not even mentioning the fact that *after* Osprey took the murderkilldeath brainbuster he also took a cutter directly on his head, a tornado DDT, a moonsault off the top to the floor and sold basically none of them outside of laying on the ground for 20 seconds.

And like I really do get it. Some people just like to see cool moves and it doesn't need to make sense because it looks so cool, but I don't think these most guys currently working today understand that having a move mean something to the audience is so much more impactful than the impressiveness of the move itself.

 

[Derek]

I mean the move is incredible and kudos to them both for pulling it off safely.

And I know this gonna make me sound like a bitter jaded asshole, but look at the timestamp on that tweet. 9:51PM. That means the move happened at about 9:50PM. That means this match went at least 8 more minutes after a move that if this were real - and again we're supposed to suspend our disbelief and treat this like it's real - would have left Osprey in a goddamn wheelchair.

Not only was this massively incredible looking super devastating move NOT the finish, the guy who took the move was doing a front flip off the top rope and landing on his feet laughing like a minute later. He also went on to win the match without actually, you know, ever selling his neck or anything else. And I'm not even mentioning the fact that *after* Osprey took the murderkilldeath brainbuster he also took a cutter directly on his head, a tornado DDT, a moonsault off the top to the floor and sold basically none of them outside of laying on the ground for 20 seconds.

And like I really do get it. Some people just like to see cool moves and it doesn't need to make sense because it looks so cool, but I don't think these most guys currently working today understand that having a move mean something to the audience is so much more impactful than the impressiveness of the move itself.

You sound like a bitter jaded asshole

 

[kookoo]

Lol, I don't get why wrestling fans are so salty right now. I'm seeing a lot of complaining about both promotions. But realistically, we're in the best place wrestling has been since the attitude era... The actual wrestling matches are super fun, and they're both doing interesting things with storylines. There are a ton of talented wrestlers and I think most people who deserve to be pushed are getting pushed. I'm also loving the whole 'stuff happening in the background' in WWE interviews. Yes, AEW is following the New Japan match style, but there's nothing wrong with that. I think the whole idea of 'believable' matches is stupid. Jumping off the top rope, landing on your face as someone moves away would be a concussion for most people. Adults know it's a performance art, and these wrestlers are meant to be treated as superheroes. Also, it's the same people who pop when Danhausen 'curses' wrestlers... So calm the fuck down Nothing wrong with no-sells.

I just can't wait for MJF and Cody to get back.

 

[CBBI]

Lol, I don't get why wrestling fans are so salty right now. I'm seeing a lot of complaining about both promotions. But realistically, we're in the best place wrestling has been since the attitude era... The actual wrestling matches are super fun, and they're both doing interesting things with storylines. There are a ton of talented wrestlers and I think most people who deserve to be pushed are getting pushed. I'm also loving the whole 'stuff happening in the background' in WWE interviews. Yes, AEW is following the New Japan match style, but there's nothing wrong with that. I think the whole idea of 'believable' matches is stupid. Jumping off the top rope, landing on your face as someone moves away would be a concussion for most people. Adults know it's a performance art, and these wrestlers are meant to be treated as superheroes. Also, it's the same people who pop when Danhausen 'curses' wrestlers... So calm the fuck down Nothing wrong with no-sells.

I just can't wait for MJF and Cody to get back.

Have you noticed the workers who intentionally do less in the ring and actively try and separate what they're doing from the warpspeed, no selling style that the majority of the AEW roster uses - MJF, Punk, Danielson and FTR specifically - have gotten over and connected with the crowd as big, if not bigger than any other acts in AEW has by doing that instead of doing the carwreck style?

 

[DirtyDan]

AEW has no balance or pacing to their shows. They suffer from inconsistent booking and poorly thought out storylines on a regular basis.

I don't want every match to attempt to be an instant classic or Meltzer 5 star match. I want the women's division to have enough time to be seen as credible. AEW needed to give enough time for the guys with actual talent to get over and to feature the stars they have brought in over the years.

Tag team matches that turn into spotfests just are not watchable. If they want to be present a quality product, dial back this shit and take it slower. I can feel Tony Khan's ADHD through the fucking screen.

 

[DirtyDan]

I enjoy how any criticism of AEW is seen as just bitching. That we should be grateful for AEW punching way below their weight class. They are not trying to compete with NJPW or AAA, they want to establish themselves as the second biggest wrestling promotion in the world and have the talent to actually make WWE sweat in a couple years.

They are hitting a glass ceiling because they cannot reign in the worst tendencies of these guys. We can still have amazing spots, but it needs to be well thought out with attention to detail and keeping the presentation of the wrestlers involved in mind. Build some continuity here.

 

[kookoo]

Have you noticed the workers who intentionally do less in the ring and actively try and separate what they're doing from the warpspeed, no selling style that the majority of the AEW roster uses - MJF, Punk, Danielson and FTR specifically - have gotten over and connected with the crowd as big, if not bigger than any other acts in AEW has by doing that instead of doing the carwreck style?

I think that's just you and a select few people. i appreciate both the athleticism as well as the in-ring storytelling. You're telling me Bryan and Punk don't no-sell? BD literally hulks up when getting kicked so often. The holy shit chants aren't saved for a sleeper hold on the ground for 35 seconds... And he goes flying out of the ring at a million miles an hour. With MJF and Punk, it isn't their style. You're leaving guys like Buddy Murphy and Neville out, who are phenomenal performers. AJ Styles. Jungle Boy. Adam Cole. Penta. The Young Bucks. Those guys all have incredible matches and do wild shit every single time. Also, FTR aren't high flying, but they definitely also do some car wreck shit. I think you're going to have a hard time getting anyone outside of Dirty Dan to agree with you. But it doesn't matter, enjoy what you enjoy. I'm just glad that piece of shit Vince is out of the picture and personally am enjoying the product from both WWE and AEW. Hopefully they push each other to new heights. Literally for more holy shit moments and metaphorically. But yeah, the complaints are going on deaf ears.

 

[Kbiz]

I know I am a bit of an AEW stan but just wanted to say that what Haitch has done the last month with WWE is impressive. One of the best builds they've constructed for a PPV all year and he's weaving interactions b/w the mains and NXT.

 

[Derek]

This weekend is going to be pretty great.

I haven’t watched much of NXT 2.0, but their show this weekend is shaping up rather nicely. Ricochet and Carmelo Hayes is a particularly excited match up.

Clash looks good, and All Out has a stacked card.

 

[Derek]

AEW has no balance or pacing to their shows. They suffer from inconsistent booking and poorly thought out storylines on a regular basis.

I don't want every match to attempt to be an instant classic or Meltzer 5 star match. I want the women's division to have enough time to be seen as credible. AEW needed to give enough time for the guys with actual talent to get over and to feature the stars they have brought in over the years.

Tag team matches that turn into spotfests just are not watchable. If they want to be present a quality product, dial back this shit and take it slower. I can feel Tony Khan's ADHD through the fucking screen.

Can you give some examples of the inconsistent booking and poorly thought out storylines? I’d be interested to know what you’re referring to.

I understand that the match styles aren’t for everyone. Hell, I recall a very well-received Bucks/Lucha Bros cage match that just didn’t do it for me at all. The Kingston/Jericho blow off match stunk, in my opinion. So, I get that stuff.

Regarding stories and booking though, I struggle to think of anything that didn’t make sense to me.

I enjoy how any criticism of AEW is seen as just bitching.

I think this is pretty unfair. We had a good back and forth with @CBBI in here, and sure there was some good natured ribbing, but his critiques were not dismissed as bitching.

 

[CBBI]

I can't wait for them to book Moxley/Punk 2 tonight with the story arc being "watch an injured Punk overcome the odds in his hometown!" and see the mental gymnastics some people have to then perform to justify last week's booking

If the plan is for Punk to turn heel during the match and win the belt back, that's fine, but they better smarten up and NOT book it as a no DQ. If Punk's legally allowed to kick Moxley in the nuts or use a weapon to his advantage or have guys run in and interfere on his behalf, that 100% takes away from the whole point of the turn.

 

[Kbiz]

I can't wait for them to book Moxley/Punk 2 tonight with the story arc being "watch an injured Punk overcome the odds in his hometown!" and see the mental gymnastics some people have to then perform to justify last week's booking

If the plan is for Punk to turn heel during the match and win the belt back, that's fine, but they better smarten up and NOT book it as a no DQ. If Punk's legally allowed to kick Moxley in the nuts or use a weapon to his advantage or have guys run in and interfere on his behalf, that 100% takes away from the whole point of the turn.

Yeah if this is the match we get and the goal is to turn Punk heel. Better do it in a smarmy way.

If the angle ends up being Punk faked the injury last week and miraculously it worked in his favor for a rematch, just for the intention of making it look like Moxley is caught off-guard at All Out, that's crap booking. I hope TK is smarter than that.

 

[CBBI]

Yeah if this is the match we get and the goal is to turn Punk heel. Better do it in a smarmy way.

If the angle ends up being Punk faked the injury last week and miraculously it worked in his favor for a rematch, just for the intention of making it look like Moxley is caught off-guard at All Out, that's crap booking. I hope TK is smarter than that.

I don't even think it's gonna be that.

I think Moxley's gonna come out for his title celebration thing tonight and Punk's gonna come out limping or in a boot, or maybe even on crutches to sell it even harder, and say even though he's clearly not 100%, he desperately wants to give his hometown fans a show, so he's asking for his rematch this weekend in Chicago.

Moxley's gonna accept and I think Punk is just going to beat him clean in a longer match and end up being the triumphant babyface hero in his hometown.

Which, if that does happen, is going to make the Dynamite unification decision that much more silly and useless.