2018-2019 Tank Thread

[bboy]

No problem play JR KK all ya want we may even lose more games..

 

[TyGuy]

I like how it's being stated as a fact that Sexton "wont" shoot threes, when he's literally never had a problem taking plenty of them until the first 3 games of his NBA career playing 80% of his already limited minutes next to Jordan Clarkson and watching from the corner.

Should be pretty clear from watching Collin in college that he has no issue firing them up. And it's not like he was ever like sub 25% from 3 bad....he was a 31-33% guy which actually isn't too bad given his mechanical shortcomings at his young age. Him not taking them so far has everything to do with coaching/opportunity and 0 to do with not being willing.

Well, right now he isn't taking any threes. For him to provide future value he will need to shoot them.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Do you have any evidence that backs this up? Because for the longest time people said that about bigs and i'm sure they still do but it was debunked here. Certainly the example of Chris Paul doesn't hold up since he was an elite player right away.

Kyle Lowry also comes to mind as a 6'0" or under guy.

He was a league average player in to his mid 20's.

I'm not saying every guy will be Kyle Lowry but shorter PG's can struggle and wallow as they step up to the next level. It's a really tough adjustment against length.

I haven't dug through the recent database but there are examples off the top of my head, specifically for short PG's. Most other positions you know right away but the short / PG combo does have recent examples of players who have really struggled and then took off.

 

[TyGuy]

Kyle Lowry also comes to mind as a 6'0" or under guy.

He was a league average player in to his mid 20's.

I'm not saying every guy will be Kyle Lowry but shorter PG's can struggle and wallow as they step up to the next level. It's a really tough adjustment against length.

I haven't dug through the recent database but there are examples off the top of my head, specifically for short PG's. Most other positions you know right away but the short / PG combo does have recent examples of players who have really struggled and then took off.

Lowry was actually a good player his rookie year. He then struggled until he was traded to Houston.

Lowry also came into the nba as a good defender for a point guard.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Just did a quick search.....can't go in to a ton of detail as I need to head out but 6'1" Mike Conley is on the short PG list of guys who blossomed in their mid 20's as well.

Conley didn't eclipse a 3+ VORP until 25, he was 1.1 or less the first 3 years of his career. Didn't eclipse 5 W/S (roughly the marker for top half of the league for PG's) until his 4th season.

Went from a player who hovered around a league average PER until 24 and then saw a progression of 16.8, 18.3, 20.0 in age years 24, 25 and 26. Hit a career high 23.2 at 29. He also saw dramatic improvements in both his ORTG and DRTG as he aged in to his mid 20's.

So again, there are examples out there. Sexton is likely on a longer development curve given his height. AI is the only 6'1" or under ish modern guy who just lit the world on fire out of the gate.

 

[cavsfever]

Kyle Lowry also comes to mind as a 6'0" or under guy.

He was a league average player in to his mid 20's.

I'm not saying every guy will be Kyle Lowry but shorter PG's can struggle and wallow as they step up to the next level. It's a really tough adjustment against length.

I haven't dug through the recent database but there are examples off the top of my head, specifically for short PG's. Most other positions you know right away but the short / PG combo does have recent examples of players who have really struggled and then took off.

I think it's way too early to judge Sexton, but saying that shorter PGs take time to find their way in the league and using Kyle Lowry as an example is hardly reassuring. Like, not reassuring at all. Lowry was in his 8th year in the league and on his third team before he really started to stand out as a star. And for a lot of the years before that he wasn't a "league average" player he was a crap player. He didn't start to sniff "league average", as in OK starter quality, until his fifth year in the league.

 

[I'mWithDan]

I think it's way too early to judge Sexton, but saying that shorter PGs take time to find their way in the league and using Kyle Lowry as an example is hardly reassuring. Like, not reassuring at all. Lowry was in his 8th year in the league and on his third team before he really started to stand out as a star. And for a lot of the years before that he wasn't a "league average" player he was a crap player. He didn't start to sniff "league average", as in OK starter quality, until his fifth year in the league.

Maybe Mike Conley makes you feel better?

 

[I'mWithDan]

Lowry was actually a good player his rookie year. He then struggled until he was traded to Houston.

Lowry also came into the nba as a good defender for a point guard.

By what metrics?

Offensively, he was a sub 1 VORP guy for the first 4 years of his career. Below league PER average until his mid 20's. Didn't see a significant OWS jump until 24.

He posted negative DPBM's in his first 4 NBA seasons with DRTG's in the 108-110 range. His DWS was slightly better but he didn't eclipse 2+ until he was 26.

There's some middle ground here that you seem incapable of conceding. If you don't want to find it, then we are all wasting our breath.

 

[TyGuy]

By what metrics?

Offensively, he was a sub 1 VORP guy for the first 4 years of his career. Below league PER average until his mid 20's. Didn't see a significant OWS jump until 24.

He posted negative DPBM's in his first 4 NBA seasons with DRTG's in the 108-110 range. His DWS was slightly better but he didn't eclipse 2+ until he was 26.

There's some middle ground here that you seem incapable of conceding. If you don't want to find it, then we are all wasting our breath.

In year 1 he had a 3.3 BPM and was getting .148 win shares per 100 possessions. That is a good basketball player. Then like I said he regressed until he got to Houston. He wasn't a bad unplayable net negative guy at any point in his career, but he was good year 1 and then had a drop off.

 

[I'mWithDan]

In year 1 he had a 3.3 BPM and was getting .148 win shares per 100 possessions. That is a good basketball player. Then like I said he regressed until he got to Houston. He wasn't a bad unplayable net negative guy at any point in his career, but he was good year 1 and then had a drop off.

Ty, come on. He played 10 games his rookie year. TEN.

If you want to hang your hat on that, fine, the next 4 years would prove that to be a statistical anomaly.

 

[Dshuks]

There is no version of "winning" NBA basketball that includes Clarkson and Hood. So, playing more Korver, Frye, and JR over Clarkson and Hood sounds great to me.

Even if we're focused on player development and not so much on winning, I don't see how Sexton, Cedi, and Zizic ever develop into their full potential when playing with Clarkson and Hood.

Clarkson and Hood should have been traded, cut, etc. in the offseason.

You honestly think Lue is going to cut Clarkson or Hood's minutes? That's not his MO at all.
The minutes getting cut will be from Colin, Dekker ( a positive), Zizic ( although there's not much to cut from), and probably Cedi.

I look forward in a couple weeks to certain posters defending Lue's decision to cut Cedi's minutes and saying that he clearly wasn't ready for starters minutes.

 

[TyGuy]

Ty, come on. He played 10 games his rookie year. TEN.

If you want to hang your hat on that, fine, the next 4 years would prove that to be a statistical anomaly.

LOL, I didn't even notice that. Fair enough, that certainly isn't a large enough sample size. I still don't think he was a bad player. He was more of a neutral player that became an outstanding player later.

I don't think there are many examples of guys being terrible in year 1 and then go on to be all stars.

 

[czvo]

Conley is a good player for Sexton to try and emulate. Undersized, fast but not explosive, not a natural shooter but worked his ass off to be good at it, not a natural fit at point guard, but, again, soaked everything up to be a good fit with another guy that can pass (Gasol).

Not bad. If he can become Conley, Cavs will be alright

 

[TitleTown]

You honestly think Lue is going to cut Clarkson or Hood's minutes? That's not his MO at all.
The minutes getting cut will be from Colin, Dekker ( a positive), Zizic ( although there's not much to cut from), and probably Cedi.

I look forward in a couple weeks to certain posters defending Lue's decision to cut Cedi's minutes and saying that he clearly wasn't ready for starters minutes.

What are you talking about? I didn’t say anything about Lue, and I’m certainly not a Lue defender. I think you missed the point of my post:
Clarkson and Hood suck.

 

[Ozone]

I would put Clarkson in the sl just to get him away from Sexton, move Hood to the 2nd unit. Cedi's minutes will only be reduced if he plays like he did in game 3 as opposed to games 1 & 2.