Brendan Haywood's Trade Exception

[Mo Fiya]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We are not over the cap this season, and I am not sure how we could be over the cap this season. The Haywood contract provides us an 8 million dollar booster rocket to go over the cap in a trade for next year. Lots of takers for that trade. Consider any team over the cap, especially a repeat offender, could send us a nigh 10 million dollar player, which could save them 16 million dollars in the first year (if include all of the tax implications). This year it limits our cap space by 2 million dollars. If we renounce AV, and move Jack and Hopson in a salary dump, we could sign two 20 million dollar contracts this year. Then next year, we could trade Haywood in combination with say Zeller and get back Horford.

I am not saying we can actually pull this off because I am still skeptical that Lebron for example would sign in cleveland, much less any of the other superfreinds, but I think the FO deserves a slow clap for putting Cleveland in an entirely flexible position.

Something else that really sticks out is that in 2015 we have 12 million dollars in team options, and 13 million in expiring ( I am including Kyrie). The biggest contract we have to pay is Jack, and I am confident we will move him this year. That means any player not producing this season gets chopped or traded. Good motivation, and lots of flexiblity roster wise.

We don't have the room to sign two 20mm guys this off season unless we unload more than JJ and Hopson, even with renouncing AV.

 

[David.]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

Please stop the comparisons of basketball players to food.it's really Fucking stupid.

 

[gourimoko]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We don't have the room to sign two 20mm guys this off season unless we unload more than JJ and Hopson, even with renouncing AV.

We can make room for 2 $20M players.. I've detailed how at length, and we'd do so under the cap.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We can make room for 2 $20M players.. I've detailed how at length, and we'd do so under the cap.

We can, but I doubt that we will. I don't see Griffin going after a max player. He'll meet with LeBron and give him a clue as to what he's aiming for, but they're not going to gut the team to clear all that room on the hope that they can get two guys.

The Heat are in trouble no matter what the talking heads say. They spend a fortune on three guys and they won two titles, but they will have to pay for it long term. Everything I've seen indicates that Griffin is aiming for the Spurs' model. They have stars, they have depth, and they still have cap space. They have a crazy long streak of winning 50+ games, are in the thick of it most every year, and never worry about landing a big free agent.

The question to put to LeBron is seeing if he'd rather keep trying to cobble together expensive superstar rosters or go for our version of the Spurs' model. It's not about just throwing money at guys, it's about them being on board with the long term plans and goals of the Cavaliers.

 

[sailfish]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We can, but I doubt that we will. I don't see Griffin going after a max player. He'll meet with LeBron and give him a clue as to what he's aiming for, but they're not going to gut the team to clear all that room on the hope that they can get two guys.

The Heat are in trouble no matter what the talking heads say. They spend a fortune on three guys and they won two titles, but they will have to pay for it long term. Everything I've seen indicates that Griffin is aiming for the Spurs' model. They have stars, they have depth, and they still have cap space. They have a crazy long streak of winning 50+ games, are in the thick of it most every year, and never worry about landing a big free agent.

The question to put to LeBron is seeing if he'd rather keep trying to cobble together expensive superstar rosters or go for our version of the Spurs' model. It's not about just throwing money at guys, it's about them being on board with the long term plans and goals of the Cavaliers.

Excellent post & I agree completely.
Unfortunately, my sense is LeBron just wants to team up with stars once again and form another super team.

 

[CruiserNFL]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We can make room for 2 $20M players.. I've detailed how at length, and we'd do so under the cap.

Exactly. And, when LBJ asks Griff next week "Well, Griff, if you trade away all those asset to get Kevin Love, and if you sign me and Kevin to max deals, how will you then improve the team around me, KL, and KI? I don't want Big Three and no bench again."
Now Griff can point to the Hayward contract. Even if over the cap 2015 (with our Big Three), the Cavs can still swap that Hayward contract for a $10 mil player as the salaries will match.

Do I have that right ?

 

[mapfe]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

Exactly. And, when LBJ asks Griff next week "Well, Griff, if you trade away all those asset to get Kevin Love, and if you sign me and Kevin to max deals, how will you then improve the team around me, KL, and KI? I don't want Big Three and no bench again."
Now Griff can point to the Hayward contract. Even if over the cap 2015 (with our Big Three), the Cavs can still swap that Hayward contract for a $10 mil player as the salaries will match.

Do I have that right ?

I can't imagine him wasting a year on a team with a lack of depth, for the next season when a trade could theoretically happen.

 

[Cayman13]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We can, but I doubt that we will. I don't see Griffin going after a max player. He'll meet with LeBron and give him a clue as to what he's aiming for, but they're not going to gut the team to clear all that room on the hope that they can get two guys.

The Heat are in trouble no matter what the talking heads say. They spend a fortune on three guys and they won two titles, but they will have to pay for it long term. Everything I've seen indicates that Griffin is aiming for the Spurs' model. They have stars, they have depth, and they still have cap space. They have a crazy long streak of winning 50+ games, are in the thick of it most every year, and never worry about landing a big free agent.

The question to put to LeBron is seeing if he'd rather keep trying to cobble together expensive superstar rosters or go for our version of the Spurs' model. It's not about just throwing money at guys, it's about them being on board with the long term plans and goals of the Cavaliers.

Great post!!

 

[gourimoko]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We can, but I doubt that we will. I don't see Griffin going after a max player. He'll meet with LeBron and give him a clue as to what he's aiming for, but they're not going to gut the team to clear all that room on the hope that they can get two guys.

We don't really need to "gut the team."

Our core consists of Kyrie Irving, Andrew Wiggins, Dion Waiters, Anderson Varejao, and Anthony Bennett.

Five players.

To sign two ~$20M contracts, we'd need to part ways with only Varejao from that list.

Yes, there would be significant movement, but our core would remain intact. We'd lose Karasev, but we could potentially keep Zeller (I haven't gone over the numbers post-draft, as I'm not sure who is staying or what their salaries are guaranteed for). But prior to the draft, it was entirely possible to do this only "losing" Varejao, Jack, Tristan, and Karasev as players with guaranteed money for next season.

We've been trying to trade Andy for years. Jack and Thompson should be traded regardless of what we do later. Karasev would be nice to keep, but doing so brings us below $19M for each offer.

So I'm not in agreement with the premise of your argument. We wouldn't be gutting the team. We'd just be using all the assets we've acquired smartly, while keeping almost all the core pieces intact.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

Excellent post & I agree completely.
Unfortunately, my sense is LeBron just wants to team up with stars once again and form another super team.

Then he can go for that.

The NBA is changing. The new CBA took a dump on the superstar model and the Spurs just stabbed it in the heart. Stars will still be around - they always will. But the NBA is moving to a more team focused, movement centered game. I'm excited because of it, because I love that version of basketball. The Eastern Conference is slowly beginning to rise up again. I suspect Charlotte will make some strides this year and become quite good and a hard out in the playoffs. The Wizards can grow, the Pacers will figure it out. The Western Conference won't get any easier. A superstar roster with no depth and heavy minutes for those stars will go the way of the dodo.

This draft will go a long way towards that. It was incredibly deep and allowed teams to add depth, possibly helping to push down minutes at the top end. When that begins to happen, the game changes. You need a bench that can score. You need more even distribution across most of your positions. Teams are breaking the isolations defensively, forcing a change in play. LeBron can go back to that model and maybe hope to squeeze out one more title, but the long term prospects don't look to good - especially if Wade is one of those "superstars". He's nearly done.

 

[gourimoko]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

Exactly. And, when LBJ asks Griff next week "Well, Griff, if you trade away all those asset to get Kevin Love, and if you sign me and Kevin to max deals, how will you then improve the team around me, KL, and KI? I don't want Big Three and no bench again."
Now Griff can point to the Hayward contract. Even if over the cap 2015 (with our Big Three), the Cavs can still swap that Hayward contract for a $10 mil player as the salaries will match.

Do I have that right ?

We don't need Hayward.. We could've done it prior to that trade, but Hayward helps any S&T for Love or Melo.

As far as a bench, we have so many rookies that are high quality. Our bench would predominantly consist of Waiters, Bennett and probably Zeller. But again, we took on salary last night so I need to update my figures. But prior to the draft. We'd have one of the best benches in the league if Bennett does indeed pan out.

Even if he didn't... LeBron's situation here would be quite different. Wiggins would play 36 mpg, taking up 12 mpg at SF from LeBron James. LeBron would almost never play the 4. And Wiggins could eventually take responsibility for primary perimeter defender to conserve LeBron's energy. We wouldn't have a Big 3 but a Big 5 or even 6 depending on Bennett.

Lineups like these are simply unguardable:

Irving/Wiggins/Bron/Melo/MLE
Irving/Waiters/Wiggins/Bron/Love
Irving/Wiggins/Bron/Bennett/Love

I am not on the K.Love bandwagon though... I'm very wary of his "promise" but if he means it then he should be open to at least giving us 2 years as Tornicade has mentioned numerous times, instead of just 1.

 

[Binkster]

Hmm...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>We have a trade...</p>&mdash; NBA Legion (@MySportsLegion) <a href="https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/statuses/482513695244054528">June 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Phills14]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

We don't need Hayward.. We could've done it prior to that trade, but Hayward helps any S&T for Love or Melo.

As far as a bench, we have so many rookies that are high quality. Our bench would predominantly consist of Waiters, Bennett and probably Zeller. But again, we took on salary last night so I need to update my figures. But prior to the draft. We'd have one of the best benches in the league if Bennett does indeed pan out.

Even if he didn't... LeBron's situation here would be quite different. Wiggins would play 36 mpg, taking up 12 mpg at SF from LeBron James. LeBron would almost never play the 4. And Wiggins could eventually take responsibility for primary perimeter defender to conserve LeBron's energy. We wouldn't have a Big 3 but a Big 5 or even 6 depending on Bennett.

Lineups like these are simply unguardable:

Irving/Wiggins/Bron/Melo/MLE
Irving/Waiters/Wiggins/Bron/Love
Irving/Wiggins/Bron/Bennett/Love

I am not on the K.Love bandwagon though... I'm very wary of his "promise" but if he means it then he should be open to at least giving us 2 years as Tornicade has mentioned numerous times, instead of just 1.

Don't sleep on Karasev. You always want to put shooters on the floor with Lebron and with Blatt as our coach, you gotta figure Karasev is going to get a fair shot at earning PT.

 

[RDriesen]

Re: Brendan Haywood Traded to Cleveland

Exactly. And, when LBJ asks Griff next week "Well, Griff, if you trade away all those asset to get Kevin Love, and if you sign me and Kevin to max deals, how will you then improve the team around me, KL, and KI? I don't want Big Three and no bench again."
Now Griff can point to the Hayward contract. Even if over the cap 2015 (with our Big Three), the Cavs can still swap that Hayward contract for a $10 mil player as the salaries will match.

Do I have that right ?

It is going to be tough for any team to have 3 big stars and a bench. There just isn't cap room for it. The Spurs can do it because their big 3 aren't getting paid like a big 3. So, if players want to do that, they are going to have to not get paid max contracts.

 

[gourimoko]

Hmm...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>We have a trade...</p>— NBA Legion (@MySportsLegion) <a href="https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/statuses/482513695244054528">June 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

lol... same trade as before.