Love/Wiggins Trade Revisited

[supermario21]

I hate when Sam pontificates and puffs his chest out. He is too extreme in the other direction, and is generally too opinionated. Many times he is wrong, as well. Here's the thing. I think what exaggerates some of our Wiggins love from people like me is his offense. If he were playing freakishly good on D and less so on O I think you'd hear less from us. Like I think I said in the game thread, people were making it seem like Wiggins would be limited on O in the same style that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is. Yeah, he might not have that great a PER but even I am surprised at how good at scoring he has been. They kept going to him even though Kevin Martin is now back to jack up shots all game. I'll be interested to see how he fits in once Rubio, Martin, and Young are all synced back up just to see what happens to his usage and efficiency.

At least we're done with Minnesota..Now we can all focus on hoping Love picks it up. Even when he's hurt, sluggish, at his lowest, whatever you want to call it, he is helping us out significantly so I think these sort of games just induce max panic/emotion but it will settle down.

 

[wremy]

Basketball wise how would Wiggins be outplaying Love on this team? I just wanna see your opinion. He'd be fighting for minutes between Shumpert and Delly. I don't see him playing over Shumpert so idk. Well we'd probably play Lebron at the 4 so he'd probably play a lot of 3
Teams would probably ignore Wiggins past the 3 point line making it hard for Kyrie and Lebron to drive and despite popular belief wiggins defense isn't great against SFs or big SGs.

We wouldn't have a great big man either and I think on this team that's more important instead of adding another wing who probably wouldn't even play much

he wouldn't be.. your wasting your time replying to this guy

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Are people really implying Love wouldn't immediately have multiple teams knocking down his door offering him the max contract when he hit free agency? Or that 'we couldn't trade away Love on a big contract'

I'm sure those were the same people saying Chris Bosh wouldn't be offered the max when he turned out to be the most sought after free agent after the best basketball player in the world this summer. Kevin Love is a max player, and suggesting otherwise is just insane

 

[TFIR]

Basketball wise how would Wiggins be outplaying Love on this team? I just wanna see your opinion. He'd be fighting for minutes between Shumpert and Delly

There probably would be no Shumpert actually. And no JR Smith. And they would have had to find a power forward somehow.

Which goes to show how problematic going back in time is. Any move sets into motion all kinds of things that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

 

[inliner311]

Since The Bullshit Whisperer became Griffins go to guy, he seems to throw his own opinion out the window and will tow the company line to the extreme. I think he thinks if he doesn't back the front office 1000% he will be kick to the curb. He was readable before this season and now he is plain terrible. He will take shots at old players for no reason other than just to back this front office vs the old ones.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Here are some of the following differences...
1. Wiggins is 19
2. Wiggins has no high quality players around him especially tonight with like 6 of their players injured
3. Wiggins plays SG/SF he is not a big
4. Wiggins still had 4 steals
5. I value high FG % more than I do defensive rebounds
6. Most importantly he is a rookie

I'm not expecting Wiggins to literally be the next LeBron. When he starts to peak I wouldn't be surprised if he only averages 3-5 assists per game more similar to Melo. But shooting 64% for 33 points, give him credit where credit is due. I give Love credit for getting 6 offensive rebounds.

Now it just looks like you're making excuses. Andrew Wiggins has a 13.10 PER. That's a below league average player. He scores pretty well, but he just doesn't contribute much in any other stats. He doesn't rebound well for a guy who is 6'8" and an athletic freak, and he lacks court vision (which everyone knew going into the draft).

Yes, he's a rookie and I think he'll turn into a good NBA player. I just think we're all jumping the gun here. Most would agree that Kevin Love is having a somewhat disappointing season for him, yet he's still averaging 17-10-2 with a 18.87 PER. Add to that the fact that he stretches the floor for Kyrie and LeBron, boxes out incredibly well, and almost always makes smart passes and it's easy to see why he's been so valuable for us even in a down year where we've rarely been utilizing him in his best spots.

 

[TFIR]

it's easy to see why he's been so valuable for us even in a down year

I'd call it a year of adjustments. Statistically down, but the guy finds ways to contribute as the #3 guy. I think we tend to underestimate that challenge. Chris Bosh doesn't underestimate it and pointed out it's difficulty before the season.

 

[Steve_424]

????

---quote---

Kevin Love is dealing with a back injury that caused him to miss Cleveland's 126-121 win over the Clippers Friday. The Cavaliers star was back in the starting lineup on Monday vs. Chicago.

Continue for updates.

Love Starts vs. Bulls
Monday, Jan. 19
Despite some confusion surrounding Tristan Thompson being listed as the starting power forward tonight, Kevin Love did in fact start tonight's game against the Bulls confirms Rick Noland of the Elyria Chronicle-Telegram.

On Jan. 18, Chris Haynes of The Plain Dealer reported that Love practiced with the Cavaliers on Sunday and that the team listed him as questionable for Monday's game vs. Chicago.

Love Out vs. Clippers With Back Injury
Friday, Jan. 16
The Cleveland Cavaliers and Kevin Love haven't had the season anyone expected—thanks in large part to injuries constantly derailing the All-Star forward.

According to ESPN's Dave McMenamin, Love is dealing with another injury, this time to his back:





Love's transition to being one of multiple stars on a team instead of being "The Man," as he was in Minnesota, has had its rough patches. His scoring average went down from November to December, though his rebounds went up from 8.6 to 10.7 per game during that stretch, per Basketball-Reference.com.

However, Love stepped up when LeBron James was out with knee and back ailments over an eight-game stretch in late December and early January. One of his best games of the season came on January 2 againstCharlotte when he scored 27 points and grabbed five rebounds in the only game Cleveland won without LeBron.

Given how careful the Cavaliers have been in protecting LeBron this season, you can expect them to take a similar approach with Love. Cleveland head coach David Blatt admitted when it looked like Love suffered a knee injury against Charlotte that he's more on edge than usual, via The Associated Press (h/t ESPN.com):

"Every time I see somebody fall down or bend over to fix their shoelaces, I'm a little worried right now—I really am," Blatt said. "We're a little bit on eggshells as far as that stuff is concerned."

Love missed one game earlier in the year with back spasms. The Cavaliers can't afford to lose any of their major pieces for too long, especially with the Eastern Conference looking stronger at the top than expected. Cleveland is still capable of going on a long winning streak, but it needs to get healthy to do so.

--end quote--


Not sure if you're serious but, it's been mentioned repeatedly that Kevin Love needs time to heal, that he's playing injured, and that the Cavaliers are hoping he can make it to the ASG to get some rest.

We've talked about it on RCF for some time now, I didn't this was news.

Big difference between some nagging injuries and injuries affecting a guy so much that he needs to be shut down for a while.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

We have a very strong title window over the next 4-5 years. A very strong, elite window where we can compete with any team in the league.

Love maximizes that window. In the NBA, where anything can happen, that is a long window to be looking at. We have a great core in place set up to achieve an elite 5 years of basketball.

Sure, Wiggins may be entering his prime in 5-7 years while Love may be leaving it around that time, but I'd rather have a higher 5 year ceiling than a lower ceiling right now but higher 7 years down the road.

We have the best player on the planet at or at least right next to the peak of his powers in all facets of the game. This team is built to win, and trading Wiggins for Love was a big part of that.

Think of how teams would be able to adjust and zero in on us without Love? Kyrie and LeBron would both suffer without his spacing and the threat of him going bonkers. There will come games in the playoffs where teams completely sell out on Kyrie and LeBron, and Love is going to have to give us big scoring spurts if we want to win. I feel way more confident in being a title contender with Love on board rather than *insert stretch 4 here and develop Wiggins slowly at 15 minutes per game*.

 

[Tornicade]

Cavs traded Wiggins with the expectation that Wiggins would be a very good player. pointing out that he is a good player doesnt change anything.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

2) Is LaMarcus Aldridge not a "Stretch 4?" Guys saying Love was better than LaMarcus Aldridge have obviously not watched either player play the game of basketball. You can't pick up the box score and start "educating" folks who've watched Kevin turn his back to opposing players he's responsible for guarding just to grab a rebound.

Love is not better, and has never been better, than LMA. He needs to learn to play defense.

Aldridge is also 6'11, more athletic, and moves better laterally.

Aldridge has also taken a extra step and become better the last two years. Love can still get better, he hasn't necessarily reached his absolute peak. Now, I don't know if he'll ever be as good as Aldridge, but that's not what I'm trying to argue.

Even if Love is never quite as good as Aldridge, it's okay Aldridge is one of the best bigs in the game.

 

[Walter White]

Aldridge is also 6'11, more athletic, and moves better laterally.

Aldridge has also taken a extra step and become better the last two years. Love can still get better, he hasn't necessarily reached his absolute peak. Now, I don't know if he'll ever be as good as Aldridge, but that's not what I'm trying to argue.

Even if Love is never quite as good as Aldridge, it's okay Aldridge is one of the best bigs in the game.

Love's post up game and defense won't ever match Aldridge, but he can knock down the mid range just as well. Face up game is pretty close. And even though Lamarcus has extended his range, Love will always be the better shooter from three.

This has been a big adjustment year for Love, and even if his numbers don't show it, I would say it has been his biggest improvement year by far. His defense is improving a lot and he is doing the things a winning team needs. He always has played hard. The biggest "problem" is that he isn't shooting the ball as good as he used to, but it should come around.

 

[Marcus]

Now it just looks like you're making excuses. Andrew Wiggins has a 13.10 PER. That's a below league average player. He scores pretty well, but he just doesn't contribute much in any other stats. He doesn't rebound well for a guy who is 6'8" and an athletic freak, and he lacks court vision (which everyone knew going into the draft).

Yes, he's a rookie and I think he'll turn into a good NBA player. I just think we're all jumping the gun here. Most would agree that Kevin Love is having a somewhat disappointing season for him, yet he's still averaging 17-10-2 with a 18.87 PER. Add to that the fact that he stretches the floor for Kyrie and LeBron, boxes out incredibly well, and almost always makes smart passes and it's easy to see why he's been so valuable for us even in a down year where we've rarely been utilizing him in his best spots.

Get outta here with that logic, it's all about the STATS, baby!!!

 

[Rick Astley]

Wiggins got Ricky back and still only scored 14pts on 14 shots. He should have 1 Cavs game a week so nobody will forget that he'll take the league by storm in 3-4 years.

Love scored only 5 points yet produced a +26 net. Not bad.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

Wiggins got Ricky back and still only scored 14pts on 14 shots. He should have 1 Cavs game a week so nobody will forget that he'll take the league by storm in 3-4 years.

Love scored only 5 points yet produced a +26 net. Not bad.

I think Love had a good game today, despite his shooting woes, but net plus/minus is honestly a terrible way of judging a player's performance especially when they're a starter and we win by 13. Not a fan of it.