The Brian Hoyer thread...

[jlj3184]

Another thing that's being overlooked with Gordon is that he'll be coming in without any of the dings and bruises that EVERY NFL player has come week 12.

Being the only 100% healthy guy on the field should be a huge advantage for him. I don't think conditioning effects WRs as much as other positions, either. He might play under a limited snap count his first week back, but I don't have any concerns that he won't be up to game speed in the snaps he does get.

 

[jlj3184]

Today was another example of QBR not telling the entire story. Looked pretty bad to the naked eye, although the numbers suggest otherwise. A couple dropped picks and short passes broken for long gainers. Cameron had one drop, but there were several other great grabs (Cameron, Austin come to mind).

 

[The Voice]

Today was another example of QBR not telling the entire story. Looked pretty bad to the naked eye, although the numbers suggest otherwise. A couple dropped picks and short passes broken for long gainers. Cameron had one drop, but there were several other great grabs (Cameron, Austin come to mind).

The defense also contributed strong getting them great field positioning off turnovers.


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[Soar]

The biggest key for Hoyer will be getting some sort of running game back.

He's been more exposed without the running attack.

Any QB would be. But what makes the issue more glaring for us, is that we don't exactly have an all-star group of WRs to help offset that loss. And Hoyer isn't exactly Peyton Manning either.

Finding the running game is especially important given that Cameron's status is certainly in doubt going into next week.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

Outside of a deep playoff run. I am starting to lean towards letting Manzel sit this year and go into next year as the starter.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Barring a huge playoff run. I am starting to lean towards letting manzel sit this year and go into next year as are starter.

Aside from something crazy happening, we have little to no chance of making the playoffs. Our division is absolutely ridiculous. We're behind three teams in our own division that are all playoff caliber teams.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

Aside from something crazy happening, we have little to no chance of making the playoffs. Our division is absolutely ridiculous. We're behind three teams in our own division that are all playoff caliber teams.

That's what I mean. I like Hoyer and have been a huge fan and supporter of him, but I don't see the upside. I see a guy who is starting to get exposed as he gets more game on film. Unless we can see him develop this might be all we get. A guy who can lead a decent team to 8-8 maybe 9-7 with a good running game and good defense.

 

[Phills14]

Hoyer is becoming what I thought he was. A top 5 backup QB. The guy is smart, makes good decisions, he is a leader and a professional. However; he's limited with his physical abilities and he's surprisingly inaccurate. He's good enough to come in when the starter is injured to keep the season a float. That being said he absolutely should remain as the starter until the playoffs are reasonably out of reach. Hoyer will keep us respectable and hover around .500 this year.

Once Manziel comes in we are going backwards. That's not a knock on Manziel but more a knock on rookie QBs in general. The odds tell you a rookie QB will lose a whole lot more than they win. My guess is Manziel makes his first start at home Dec 7th vs the Colts. We play the Colts and Bengals at home in back to back weeks before we finish the season on the road for 2. Gordon will have been back for 2 games already so he'd be back up to speed and Manziel should have enough assets at his disposal to get a reasonable assessment of his talent.

 

[The Voice]

Once Manziel comes in we are going backwards. That's not a knock on Manziel but more a knock on rookie QBs in general. The odds tell you a rookie QB will lose a whole lot more than they win. My guess is Manziel makes his first start at home Dec 7th vs the Colts. We play the Colts and Bengals at home in back to back weeks before we finish the season on the road for 2. Gordon will have been back for 2 games already so he'd be back up to speed and Manziel should have enough assets at his disposal to get a reasonable assessment of his talent.

Why even bother playing him at that point? Let him sit the final two games of the season.


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[Soda]

I'm in favor of sitting Manziel this entire season. I can't recall the last time this organization was able to let that happen..

Looking past Johnny's obvious physical limitations, I just think a year and an off-season is enough time for him to get his reins going into camp next season. I get the feeling that Johnny and Gordon are going to spend some time together in this coming off-season. Hopefully, Hawkins and Gabriel join him.

On Hoyer. He is just not getting it done from an accuracy standpoint. He certainly has the mental part of the game pretty well honed, but his ability to make plays doesn't seem to be there unless the pressure is on. I can openly say that a huge reason I've been supporting him is because he's got the traits the other QB's we've had just lack. Mental toughness, short memory, leadership and clutch play. Problem is, a great QB has these traits from the first drive through the final play.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

I'm in favor of sitting Manziel this entire season. I can't recall the last time this organization was able to let that happen..

Looking past Johnny's obvious physical limitations, I just think a year and an off-season is enough time for him to get his reins going into camp next season. I get the feeling that Johnny and Gordon are going to spend some time together in this coming off-season. Hopefully, Hawkins and Gabriel join him.

On Hoyer. He is just not getting it done from an accuracy standpoint. He certainly has the mental part of the game pretty well honed, but his ability to make plays doesn't seem to be there unless the pressure is on. I can openly say that a huge reason I've been supporting him is because he's got the traits the other QB's we've had just lack. Mental toughness, short memory, leadership and clutch play. Problem is, a great QB has these traits from the first drive through the final play.

I agree 100%. I think he is a great short term QB until Manzel is ready. I think the fact we can let him sit, learn how to read defenses and understand the game will help tremendously. It is more about him not learning bad habits and having to put in the work to to earn the playing time. I would love if we are able to do what Cincy did with Palmer. We should be in no rush to play the kid, I hope for once the Browns are able to see long-term and not go for the "fan" ' media' choice under pressure.

I also really believe that getting Josh back in week 12 will be a shot in the arm to this team. I think it will open up the field for the running game as he will require safety help over the top, which will in-turn open up Cameron over the middle. Right now defenses can get away with single coverage and loading the box. Outside of blown coverage none of our receivers are great route runners or can beat a defensive back.

 

[Binkster]

While I've been a huge Hoyer guy all season, he is limited (albeit so was Tom Brady) and would need to sharpen several elements of his game to reach that next level, top-15 QB (I'd already take him over Cutler).

He needs things around him to put him in a position to win a lot of games, but he will not lose games, either. He makes gritty plays when they matter most and he doesn't shake in tight situations.

That said, he needs his running game back and he could sure use Gordon's help. With those two things clicking, he could lead a team to 10 wins.

He won't do it by himself as he is not in the vein of elite quarterbacks and doesn't destroy defenses. But I see him as a notch above Alex Smith in terms of playmaking, better than any rookie quarterback in terms of limiting mistakes and reading defenses, and heck - I definitely take him over guys like Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Austin Davis, Orton, etc.

He is what he is.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

If he's a notch above Alex Smith, then he can definitely win 10 games or more, and potentially lead a team to a Super Bowl some day.

Personally, I think he's a notch below Smith, although agreed that he's above the Fitzpatrick, Orton grouping. He's incredibly average, with good ability before the snap and between plays and below average ability during the play.

I'm not going to rank him because I find that to be laborious to do, so I'll just say that right now, he's acceptable. But in order to win a Super Bowl, I'm pretty sure Hoyer is going to need to be upgraded.

 

[AZ_]

Football was more fun when we could have arguments about Hoyer being a Top 10 QB.

 

[Soda]

Football was more fun when we could have arguments about Hoyer being a Top 10 QB.

Personally, I'm enjoying treating wins like losses. Hoyer being top-10 is outdated.