Jesus Christ Heals You

guitarlifter said:

There is a massive, atheist circle jerk going on right now in this thread.

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What? There is literally one person who proclaimed to be an atheist in this entire thread.

guitarlifter said:

There is a massive, atheist circle jerk going on right now in this thread.

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How can you tell if someone is an atheist?

They will tell you.

Cratylus said:

Well, that's one of the rubs for sure. It doesn't help the (in this case) Christians' cause when you have fundamentalists trying to read the Bible (and mainly the book of Genesis) as a sort of scientific primer when, in fact, it was never intended to be read as such. Yeah, it's telling to read some of the absurdities in the Bible (for instance, in Leviticus 11:13-19 God himself says that a bat is a type of bird). Passages like this can be used to demonstrate that either (a) the God of the Bible was a moron (and therefore not truly "God" as many pseudo-philosophical Christians would describe him), or (b) the people who claimed God told them this were lying.

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Here is the section of text from which you are speaking.

13"And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture, 14 the kite, the falcon of any kind, 15 every raven of any kind, 16 the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk of any kind, 17 the little owl, the cormorant, the short-eared owl, 18 the barn owl, the tawny owl, the carrion vulture, 19 the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.

20"All winged insects that go on all fours are detestable to you. 21 Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those that have jointed legs above their feet, with which to hop on the ground. 22 Of them you may eat: the locust of any kind, the bald locust of any kind, the cricket of any kind, and the grasshopper of any kind. 23 But all other winged insects that have four feet are detestable to you.

If you took the time to study the text, you would see that the word translated as birds in Leviticus 11:13 is also translated insects in Leviticus 11:20-21,23. The Hebrew word is transliterated "oph ". The word means fowl or winged creatures. The context of these verses is what may be eaten and that which may not be eaten.

BooyaCS said:

The morality of the stories in the religious texts are compelling. Just as long as we remember they are only stories and not factual evidence.

Keep them as stories and fables of what happens when you are immoral and such. That is it. We should apply the same skeptical/free thinking thought to them as we would to any story we read/hear.

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How do you know that they are just stories and not recorded history?

Trying to figure out if I should jump in this or not. @ewizacft seems to have it under control about as well as anyone can 1 vs. 100 Props for handling it well. I feel people were receptive to my perspective in the last "religious" discussion, and it was a good discussion. But I feel like I've gone over a lot of this stuff already.

ewizacft said:

I have been praying for you before I even started this thread and will continue to do so in the future.

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My man!

Chardon said:

How can you tell if someone is an atheist?

They will tell you.

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Where's that old button?

You came back to write THAT?

ewizacft said:

I think it is great that you leave the possibility for the existence of God. What bothers me is that you then go on to rule out the efficacy of intercessory prayer. What if the God you do not believe in created intercessory prayer? What if asking him for things that he already wants to do is part of what prayer actually is?

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If God's going to do what he's going to do, then prayer is an irrelevant, unnecessary activity. He doesn't need your urging or assistance.

In my heart I know that God is real. I know that Jesus is Gods son. Jesus was a man who walked on this earth just like you and I. Jesus suffered and died as a sacrifice to pay for all mans sin. I know this is real because of events that have happened in my life and also family and friends around a me. I am born again. I have also experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I can't really explain how this happens or works but you just know. The freedom and pure joy that follows is indescribable. I used to be a non believer and think "these people are weird". Believe me I know first hand how it looks from a non believers point of view and I'm totally fine with that. When you have a relationship with Jesus you can talk to him in the same volume and tone as you use in any other conversation. I sometimes compare it to a father son relationship. Sometimes the reason I don't have something is because I don't ask. I can only pray for you and hope that you can experience something similar. Mocking my faith only makes my heart ache more for you.

Cratylus said:

If God's going to do what he's going to do, then prayer is an irrelevant, unnecessary activity. He doesn't need your urging or assistance.

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I don't believe that is true. It is beyond our ability to comprehend how God actually works. I do however know that you can influence God and that he hears you if you pray according to his will. If you are walking in the will of God you'll be more likely to receive an answer because you are doing what he wants. If you are outside of his will and you'll most likely not get the answer that you wish. This is how I understand things but just like all my opinions I'm open to be proven wrong.

col63onel said:

I dedicated myself to Jedi-ism, and one day will be blessed with the gift of the Force.

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Let me know if you figure it out. I try to use the force to get the TV remote to come to me. It hasn't worked yet.

The best place for religious debate is online.

Huber. said:

The best place for religious debate is online.

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Deezus said:

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If you think this is the first shit post in this thread then you're a bigger tool than we thought.

ewizacft said:

How do you know that they are just stories and not recorded history?

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Many events in the Bible, such as the creation narrative, the flood, much Old Testament history and the Gospel accounts are not backed up by science or archaeology and much of the history is not even internally consistent. They were also written long after the events they claim to describe are are in the main just 'stories'.

Also Paul's writings make no reference to a historical figure named Jesus. The Romans were the first to write about him in history and that was with Josephus and Tacitus and those accounts are sketchy as they may have been altered by Christian scribes as well. The first hand accounts do not exist.