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Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

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What Resolves First?

  • Collin Sexton's Restricted Free Agency

    Votes: 19 38.8%

  • Baker Mayfield's Tenure with the Browns

    Votes: 30 61.2%
  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .
cabs said:
The only way moving on Sexton fails is if he turns into a good player, I don’t see that happening personal opinion yes and I’ll back my opinion in as I feel I have a decent record (not perfect of course, but certainly better than what I call the ‘Dion apologists’) I’ve never rated him as highly as some do here, obviously. He’s not a pg, he has no feel for the game. Garland has nothing to do with it other than they probably won’t fit together long term, but it’s like saying we should have kept Waiters if Kyrie was a bust because we need a young guard despite in that scenario neither would be the answer.

Granted I do think Sexton is a better player than Waiters, but that doesn’t really mean much
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I mean Sexton improved more in one year than Waiters did his whole career. I'm glad you have a decent record on knowing who will and won't bust, but it seems shortsighted to not factor in that Collin got a lot better last year, and has actually added defense to his game. Waiters never showed the awareness of his weaknesses, while Collin will tell you he needs to improve his playmaking.

Comparing them like you are doesn't really make any sense. For one thing Collin is a really good shooter, which Dion is not.

Like you can't even see Collin being a 6th man? It seems like his floor not his ceiling right now.
 
Cavatt said:
I mean Sexton improved more in one year than Waiters did his whole career. I'm glad you have a decent record on knowing who will and won't bust, but it seems shortsighted to not factor in that Collin got a lot better last year, and has actually added defense to his game. Waiters never showed the awareness of his weaknesses, while Collin will tell you he needs to improve his playmaking.

Comparing them like you are doesn't really make any sense. For one thing Collin is a really good shooter, which Dion is not.

Like you can't even see Collin being a 6th man? It seems like his floor not his ceiling right now.
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Can't teach feel for the game. Can't teach court vision. Sexton has neither. He's not a PG he's a undersized SG. That's not debatable. It will never be debatable. I'm not saying he's bad but he has two flaws no amount of hard work can fix.
 
Cavatt said:
I mean Sexton improved more in one year than Waiters did his whole career. I'm glad you have a decent record on knowing who will and won't bust, but it seems shortsighted to not factor in that Collin got a lot better last year, and has actually added defense to his game. Waiters never showed the awareness of his weaknesses, while Collin will tell you he needs to improve his playmaking.

Comparing them like you are doesn't really make any sense. For one thing Collin is a really good shooter, which Dion is not.

Like you can't even see Collin being a 6th man? It seems like his floor not his ceiling right now.
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You kind of expect a rookie to start off slow and improve. Imo he hasn’t improved enough, he is the same limited player. His playmaking has arguably gone backwards although he is playing now as an undersized shooting guard oppose to a pg. Yep Sexton says Set up teammates more after games quite often then the very next game he doesn’t even look to pass..
6th man scorer but more on the Clarkson trajectory than the elite 6th man type, rather just trade him now.
I mean I feel I gave him time, I tried to fall in love but I just don’t see it. I honestly feel if we got enough minutes into Porter he’d be a better player than Sexton by the end of the season
 
NMCav said:
Can't teach feel for the game. Can't teach court vision. Sexton has neither. He's not a PG he's a undersized SG. That's not debatable. It will never be debatable. I'm not saying he's bad but he has two flaws no amount of hard work can fix.
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Last year he "Could never be a good defender ever" so I will take what you say with a grain of salt. You can have good decisionmaking without being a fantastic assist guy. Many many players have done that over the years.
 
Cavatt said:
Last year he "Could never be a good defender ever" so I will take what you say with a grain of salt. You can have good decisionmaking without being a fantastic assist guy. Many many players have done that over the years.
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He still isn't a good defender. He has improved on defense. But improving as a defender can be overcome with hard work. We know he works hard. You can not magically have good court vision or a feel for the game if you lack those things. Its a natural thing. You have it or you don't. Comparing Apples to Oranges saying Oh he improved his defense he can improve his feel for the game or his court vision. He can't. It can't be taught.
 
NMCav said:
He still isn't a good defender. He has improved on defense. But improving as a defender can be overcome with hard work. We know he works hard. You can not magically have good court vision or a feel for the game if you lack those things. Its a natural thing. You have it or you don't. Comparing Apples to Oranges saying Oh he improved his defense he can improve his feel for the game or his court vision. He can't. It can't be taught.
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I think he is making the right pass more often now. He might not ever have elite vision, which I think can't be taught but average vision will come with experience. I think he is a guy that will end up averaging 5 assists.

If we can get a wing with good vision to pair with him then I think Garland and Sexton become more about rotating in for each other and sharing the floor for 12-15 minutes a game.
 
Sexton is just not a good player, he does not impact the game in anyway besides average scoring. He has terrible vision as a passer, he doesn't rebound and he's not a good defender. I just dont see what people see in him, If anything he hampers Garlands game. How many times can you run Into the paint a game just to turn it over or to get blocked, he never penetrates to pass.
 
As a two guard he's going to get beat up every night by a bigger stronger player. He can't be a starting point guard either because he doesn't have the
ability to get other players involved...when he was drafted I had hope he could be a starting point guard. Now we are trying to figure out where to stick him.
Long term he has to come off the bench,,and other teams see that and it probably kills his potential trade value. If I could get good value for him I would try to deal him now for another young player with potential...someone like Bamba. (not saying that's the trade i would make but someone like that young with upside)
 
roozy said:
Sexton is just not a good player, he does not impact the game in anyway besides average scoring. He has terrible vision as a passer, he doesn't rebound and he's not a good defender. I just dont see what people see in him, If anything he hampers Garlands game. How many times can you run Into the paint a game just to turn it over or to get blocked, he never penetrates to pass.
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I personally don't think it's Sexton standing in the way of Garland. I think Beilein isn't putting together the lineups that help either Garland or Sexton grow at the moment. Beilein has to do a better job about matching up to opponents. Rolling out the same lineups and rotations is one of the reasons this team is getting blown out right now.

Beilein is also wasting opportunities to allow Garland to run the offense without Sexton on the floor. I like Delly but there really isn't any purpose to him being in the rotation at the moment. He is just taking opportunities away from both Sexton and Garland to run the point. Mckinnie, KPJ, and Cedi could soak up some of Dellys minutes and help us match up better.
 
WorldFreeB said:
As a two guard he's going to get beat up every night by a bigger stronger player. He can't be a starting point guard either because he doesn't have the
ability to get other players involved...when he was drafted I had hope he could be a starting point guard. Now we are trying to figure out where to stick him.
Long term he has to come off the bench,,and other teams see that and it probably kills his potential trade value. If I could get good value for him I would try to deal him now for another young player with potential...someone like Bamba. (not saying that's the trade i would make but someone like that young with upside)
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I think alot of the problem lies with trying to play 4 guards every night. Teams are focusing on stopping him right now because the lack of scoring from Cedi and Garland. I don't think the plan is to have him play purely SG in the future. I think the wing depth will be there in the future where they can rotate Sexton and Garland then play them together where the match ups make sense.

I've stated why I don't think it's a good idea to move him to the bench especially with the current talent we have. I also think a coach can figure out rotations while allowing Sexton to start to best match up with teams. If we have a influx of talent and development which pushes him down the peaking order, I think that's when we should talk about him coming off the bench. We don't have that talent yet and sending him to the bench will just cause us to lose him in the future or like you said decrease his value.
 
inliner311 said:
I think alot of the problem lies with trying to play 4 guards every night. Teams are focusing on stopping him right now because the lack of scoring from Cedi and Garland. I don't think the plan is to have him play purely SG in the future. I think the wing depth will be there in the future where they can rotate Sexton and Garland then play them together where the match ups make sense.

I've stated why I don't think it's a good idea to move him to the bench especially with the current talent we have. I also think a coach can figure out rotations while allowing Sexton to start to best match up with teams. If we have a influx of talent and development which pushes him down the peaking order, I think that's when we should talk about him coming off the bench. We don't have that talent yet and sending him to the bench will just cause us to lose him in the future or like you said decrease his value.
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I'm sorry man but KPJ with no jump shot makes more of an impact as player than Sexton does, you can just look at his game and see what a 2 guard is supposed to be like. As a rookie he has a better feel for the game than Sexton does and that's just sad.
 
cabs said:
You kind of expect a rookie to start off slow and improve. Imo he hasn’t improved enough
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Trying to maintain offense while improving defense is difficult. So far it's been promising. We haven't added any real defense since last year yet Collin's DRtg went from 121 last year vs 113 this year and the kid is durable. Played all 82 games and genuinely wants to improve.
 
WorldFreeB said:
As a two guard he's going to get beat up every night by a bigger stronger player. He can't be a starting point guard either because he doesn't have the
ability to get other players involved...when he was drafted I had hope he could be a starting point guard. Now we are trying to figure out where to stick him.
Long term he has to come off the bench,,and other teams see that and it probably kills his potential trade value. If I could get good value for him I would try to deal him now for another young player with potential...someone like Bamba. (not saying that's the trade i would make but someone like that young with upside)
Click to expand...

Bamba and a sweetener for Sexton would make sense. Fultz as the SG and Sexton as the PG would alleviate both players weaknesses. Fultz has size and playmaking but lacks a shot. Sexton can score but is essentially a SG in a PGs body. But I wouldn't do it straight up and wonder about Medicals. We would need more but it could be a win win type deal. Keep in mind Bamba almost went to Michigan and Beilein recruited him hard. Bamba fits what Beilein wants in his C if he can stay healthy.
 
roozy said:
I'm sorry man but KPJ with no jump shot makes more of an impact as player than Sexton does, you can just look at his game and see what a 2 guard is supposed to be like. As a rookie he has a better feel for the game than Sexton does and that's just sad.
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KPJ was also mentored by Jamal Crawford and Sexton seemingly didn't have good coaching until he got to the college. Each of these young players are going to have different development paths. I don't think they want Sexton to play exclusively the 2 guard in the future. He will be a combo guard that leads his own unit and plays SG when Garland is on the floor with him. I think they currently have Sexton play SG because of the lack of wing depth and excess of guard depth.

I think once they get rid of Clarkson we will know what Sexton's role is more going forward. I think people are getting too caught up with what players are right now and aren't being patient enough with how these guys will develop.
 
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