Derek
Table Setter
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2009
- Messages
- 18,221
- Reaction score
- 31,606
- Points
- 148
Not a single person in here has said that the contract is anything except an overpay
-
Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.
2020 Off-Season Rumors/News
- Thread starter AZ_
- Start date
AZ_
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 40,728
- Reaction score
- 51,465
- Points
- 148
Let me stop you right here, this is actually an opinion.
If you can't tell the difference, then you're only serving to prove me right.
This doesn't make any sense, as this happens all the time. People perform above or below contractual value while still providing value to their team.
I think he was overpaid as well, but that doesn't make your take any less terrible or baseless.
Derek
Table Setter
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2009
- Messages
- 18,221
- Reaction score
- 31,606
- Points
- 148
He didn't though
Urban
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2009
- Messages
- 7,941
- Reaction score
- 11,049
- Points
- 123
Good catch. I actually meant for it to be definitely, not definitively, but splitting hairs with the definition.
Yeah, in retrospect, guys like Hendriks, Syndergaard, and even Severino may not deserve to be in that tier but I'd still prefer them over Wheeler. Who do you think does not deserve to be in that group?
Derek
Table Setter
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2009
- Messages
- 18,221
- Reaction score
- 31,606
- Points
- 148
I don't think I'd prefer Hendricks (I assume you meant Kyle and not Liam), but I would prefer Severino (despite his injuries) and Thor (despite his lack of high-end production) due to their upside.
BMAN
All-Star
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2009
- Messages
- 7,987
- Reaction score
- 8,471
- Points
- 113
He’s been literally talking about his contract the entire time. I just went back and checked.
Okay. Stats that matter since you said he used ball park adjusted stats. Wheelers ERA+ per BBref was 102. League average is 100. So he's very slightly above average. For comparisons sake Cole was 185, Verlander 179, Ryu 179. Sonny Gray who is making 12 M per was 158 and widely viewed as a average to above average pitcher. So by ERA+ measures he's barely better then average. Anyone can cherry pick stats. Its quite easy.
Urban
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2009
- Messages
- 7,941
- Reaction score
- 11,049
- Points
- 123
Correct, Kyle, good catch again
I meant the group as a whole, not just those 3. Who else do you disagree with? Presumably Soroka?
Huber.
Adrninistrator
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2008
- Messages
- 21,394
- Reaction score
- 17,187
- Points
- 123
Derek
Table Setter
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2009
- Messages
- 18,221
- Reaction score
- 31,606
- Points
- 148
He hasn't been. You must have missed a few posts.
1. Strasburg
2. Cole
3. Morton
4. Snell
5. Severino
6. Sale
7. Bieber
8. Clevinger
9. Kluber
10. Verlander
11. Greinke
12. Soroka
13. Scherzer
14. Corbin
15. deGrom
16. Syndergaard
17. Nola
18. Flaherty
19. Hendriks
20. Kershaw
21. Buehler
Whether it's injuries, age, or simply their recent production, I'd struggle to say any of the bolded guys are definitively better options right now. I would lean toward most of them over Wheeler, but I at least think there's a conversation to be had about which you'd rather have moving forward.
AZ_
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 40,728
- Reaction score
- 51,465
- Points
- 148
But he didn't, so I don't know why you're saying he did.
Leave your personal stuff off this board, literally nobody cares about your beef with me.
AZ_
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 40,728
- Reaction score
- 51,465
- Points
- 148
As long as you admit that you've cherry picked one stat, your first, to try and make this argument that he's not a good pitcher.
Which he is, and Urban/Derek already laid out.
Its not really up for debate, from a statistical perspective. You were already proven wrong, but you're certainly welcome to say that you don't care about the stats and your opinion is based in something outside of that.
But within the constructs of the multiple fallacy arguments you presented, your opinion is that he's bad. So I guess that's something...
This is a hot take culture, so saying obviously false things about him being "4th best pitcher" or "4th if he were in a playoff rotation" is certainly something that many people confuse with actual, merit-based arguments.
But I was asking for more, because what you provided were rooted in fallacy and un-explained opinions that weren't based on anything.
Urban
Hall-of-Famer
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2009
- Messages
- 7,941
- Reaction score
- 11,049
- Points
- 123
Check again, this just isn't true.
If it were, this wouldn't still be going on nearly 24 hours later because literally everyone here agrees he is overpaid. NMCavs has repeatedly said that Wheeler is not good.
-He's not good
-I don't know what makes you think he's good
-He's average at best
-I don't think he's top 50
My original statement was that if the Twins or Whitesox signed him Indian fans should be happy. I stand by that. His contract would have hindered both teams financially and set them back. He's not a game changer. He's average. I never said he was bad until Derek went on and on. I said he's not good. Cause hes not. He's average. He won't make or break your team but with his contract it will only hurt the Phillies. But Phillies like signing bad contracts say hello to Adam Dunn I mean Bryce Harper and his 330 Million dumpster fire of a contract.