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Lindor trade ideas

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I really go the opposite way with this.

If the playoffs remain expanded to 8 teams per league, which it sure seems like they will be, I have a suspicion the Indians feel their pitching is going to be more than good enough to get one of those 8 spots whether they have Lindor or not.

So to that end, I really think they will skew towards prospects over MLB players.

Baseball does want to expand the playoffs, but i actually do not think it will happen for next season. I think it will be something in the next bargining agreement.

Indians will go for best offer they can get. They arent against a rental plus prospects if that is the best overall deal.
 
Why i was wanting Jeff McNeil, plus 2 of their top 10 prospects and at least one of their catching prospects (thinking Ali Sanchez cause he fits the defensive first)

Since we have Reyes, Davis and Smith from the Mets make no sense to me.

Except they asked for McNeil last year and got rejected.

Gimenez would be the "prize" at this point. Top 100 prospect, great defender, offensive potential. Davis would be just a cheap Santana replacement.

But I see not everyone is there yet in understanding what a mistake it was to wait until one year left on his deal. In comparison to the Sox trading Betts for example, Betts wasn't dead set on being a free agent like Lindor, the Red Sox had the cash to atleast "bluff" like they would resign him and most importantly...pre-pandemic. Then Lindor is going to be a free agent in a loaded SS class.

By the time this trade is made I think everyone will see Davis-Gimenez-prospect is in contention with whatever package is received.
 
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Except they asked for McNeil last year and got rejected.

Gimenez would be the "prize" at this point. Top 100 prospect, great defender, offensive potential. Davis would be just a cheap Santana replacement.

But I see not everyone is there yet in understanding what a mistake it was to wait until one year left on his deal. In comparison to the Sox trading Betts for example, Betts wasn't dead set on being a free agent like Lindor, the Red Sox had the cash to atleast "bluff" like they would resign him and most importantly...pre-pandemic

By the time this trade is made I think everyone will see Davis-Gimenez-prospect is in contention with whatever package is received.
How do we know what was asked and rejected? I do agree the pandemic will limit the return on any Lindor trade but I cannot fault ownership for failing to anticipate a 100-year health calamity.
 
How do we know what was asked and rejected? I do agree the pandemic will limit the return on any Lindor trade but I cannot fault ownership for failing to anticipate a 100-year health calamity.

No I'm not blaming them for the pandemic part... just saying that limits his value and it needs to be accepted more than I see on these discussions right now. However, the other issues with leverage that I mentioned (Lindor wants to be a FA, everyone knows you can't resign him, strong 2021 SS class) could have been forecasted and they should have made it happen last year based on that imo.

As for McNeil


Put "Lindor McNeil Mets" into search engine and several articles came up on this. Sounds like they wouldn't even discuss it anymore after McNeil came up.
 
Just my 2 cents ... but like others, I thought they should have traded him last season. Not trading him shows that either Lindor w Covid issues & baseball finances has diminished his value too much or we are discounting the value Lindor has to the Dolans and fan appreciation (if they can swallow his salary).

Lindor Value vs Trade Return (comparing if he plays in 1 post-season now for new team vs 2 post-seasons last year)
-- Now his value is 60-70% of last trade deadline in prospect return (Lindor WAR x years left in contract = value back in prospects - give or take).
-- At next trade deadline 40-50% of his value in return (assuming post-season is more valuable than reg seasons)

The longer we hold him, the more likely it is that we will keep him for the whole year (I know breaking news). Yet, sooner or later, the value to the Dolans for Lindor in a trade will be less than Comp A pick and ability to put fans in the seats next season (summer). Normally, in July, you are 110 games into 162 games (68% way through season so -- 30-35% of contract remaining). This year, a team only had to only pay a player 15% of his salary for one more month. If Lindor didn't have max value this Aug 31 with only $25-30 million of salary left to be paid for 2 post-seasons (playoff run support), you are not going to get what we want back ever. So, I am wondering if Dolans will pull the plug on Lindor in a trade even now in offseason. If they wait until next July, you only got to pay him $6-$7 million more and barely get a decent prospect worth more than a Comp A pick and the $2 million to sign the pick. I doubt, $8-9 million really sways them too much to take the backlash from a trade.

The real question we got to ask is what is more valuable now
1) $25 million in savings for Lindor plus a less than spectacular return (over comp A pick) or
2) The Comp A pick (plus $2 million to sign) and goodwill to fans to get fans back in the seats in 2021 with both Jose and Lindor (or at least watching TV to boost ratings for next TV contract).

We have been focused on the $20-25 million as Dolans wanting to be cheap. However, if Lindor boosts TV ratings or stadium seating .... it may not be a bad investment for the Dolans (spread of 10-year TV contract). I think we may have gotten it all wrong in Dolans wanting to shed payroll. Yes, getting rid of Hand's $10 million or Santana's $18 million will help to clear the books for next owner (and hopefully show a projected profit for 2021/22) to increase the value of a sale. Yet, if the TV revenue for next contract in 2022/23 (?) decreases due to a slip in ratings (in excitement), Dolan's are just sabotaging themselves. They need to keep the fans interest up as long as possible (before TV contract is signed) and the PR value of Lindor does that. $25 million only equates to $2.5 million per year over a 10-year TV contract ... if the TV demos drop by just 10% you are looking at a much larger decrease in a potential $60 or so million per year TV contract they may get with great demos -- we had best % of fans watching at beginning of this season per population). Lindor has that appeal to draw fans in ... Hand and Santana do not. Thus, I am starting to rethink if Lindor will be traded at all!

I could have seen a trade last offseason if we had a year to develop the next Tatis type SS (for 2 years of contract remaining) with excitement level peaking right when TV contract is renewed .... but now that type of return is just a pipedream where even Boston could only get Verdugo for Bettis type return pre-Covid (not much excitement there).
 
No I'm not blaming them for the pandemic part... just saying that limits his value and it needs to be accepted more than I see on these discussions right now. However, the other issues with leverage that I mentioned (Lindor wants to be a FA, everyone knows you can't resign him, strong 2021 SS class) could have been forecasted and they should have made it happen last year based on that imo.

As for McNeil


Put "Lindor McNeil Mets" into search engine and several articles came up on this. Sounds like they wouldn't even discuss it anymore after McNeil came up.

New Owner may change things, so you cannot 100% rule out certain factors.

To me, I dont like Gimenez as a starting SS in the pros. Low slugging percentage, very few walks to a ton of SOs. I dont see anyone else really that could be an MLB ready person. Smith and Davis, would be decent players if we didn't have Reyes. Mets offer will be a lot of non-MLB ready guys if we go straight talent.
 
New Owner may change things, so you cannot 100% rule out certain factors.

To me, I dont like Gimenez as a starting SS in the pros. Low slugging percentage, very few walks to a ton of SOs. I dont see anyone else really that could be an MLB ready person. Smith and Davis, would be decent players if we didn't have Reyes. Mets offer will be a lot of non-MLB ready guys if we go straight talent.

That's fine, I understand that. Just saying I don't expect any first class studs or perfect fits in return at this point. We will get useful players but they may have some deficiencies.
 
Are there going to be fans in the seats next season? Can anyone guarantee that to the Dolans (or any other owner)?
 
I think you guys are really overrating a lot of these Mets players.

JD Davis should not move the needle for anyone as a primary piece in a Lindor trade. Baseball Ref has his career WAR as 0.2. FG likes him a bit more at 2.3. But he really doesn’t play a lick of defense and has had one good year at the dish

Dom Smith is a bat-first 1B/DH only guy. We already have two of those guys on this roster in Naylor and Reyes

Nimmo is a platoon corner OF

I believe all three guys are arbitration eligible this winter as well so the cost-certainty factor goes out the window for the Tribe right there.

Gonna have to get a little more creative than this guys....
The Indians needed to get JD Davis back when the Astros were giving him away, not now with Lindor of all players.

If the Tribe could squeeze Frazier and Andujar from the Yankees to me that would be the best option. Hell, find a way to include Jose Ramirez and give the Yankees the infield the Tribe should have had for the last few years.
 
Are there going to be fans in the seats next season? Can anyone guarantee that to the Dolans (or any other owner)?
The Cubs last month stated that they expect reduced capacity next year. Also, that they lost 75% of their revenue this season and expect loss of $100 million next season. They stated this as they were laying off 25% of their non-baseball operation.
 
The Indians needed to get JD Davis back when the Astros were giving him away, not now with Lindor of all players.

If the Tribe could squeeze Frazier and Andujar from the Yankees to me that would be the best option. Hell, find a way to include Jose Ramirez and give the Yankees the infield the Tribe should have had for the last few years.

Agreed on Davis.

Still don't really understand the love for Andujar, either.

He doesn't have a position and the bat hasn't returned to 2018 form. I know he's been injured and has only had ~100 PA's in two years but that's a lot of risk especially as a key piece in a Lindor trade. I'd rather swing for Dominguez or Alcantara or Duran or Vargas TBH.

My ideal trade would be for a young Major Leaguer with hopefully less than a year of service time (a former/current top 100 prospect) + a high upside low level prospect (current/future top 100 prospect) + one or two older upper minors depth piece(s) with back of the rotation, middle relief or utility position player potential.

LOL at the Indians INF comment. True! FWIW, I don't think the Indians were wrong in letting Urshela go.... people forget he was with the Jays before going to the Yankees. All credit goes to the Yanks for re-working his swing. I find the Indians hitting development to be very frustrating at times and think it's something they need to reevaluate. They've really struggled to develop power bats. I feel like they need to either reevaluate their teaching philosophies or just go all in on the high contact, bat-to-ball guys they've consistently developed well.
 
Agreed on Davis.

Still don't really understand the love for Andujar, either.

He doesn't have a position and the bat hasn't returned to 2018 form. I know he's been injured and has only had ~100 PA's in two years but that's a lot of risk especially as a key piece in a Lindor trade. I'd rather swing for Dominguez or Alcantara or Duran or Vargas TBH.

My ideal trade would be for a young Major Leaguer with hopefully less than a year of service time (a former/current top 100 prospect) + a high upside low level prospect (current/future top 100 prospect) + one or two older upper minors depth piece(s) with back of the rotation, middle relief or utility position player potential.

LOL at the Indians INF comment. True! FWIW, I don't think the Indians were wrong in letting Urshela go.... people forget he was with the Jays before going to the Yankees. All credit goes to the Yanks for re-working his swing. I find the Indians hitting development to be very frustrating at times and think it's something they need to reevaluate. They've really struggled to develop power bats. I feel like they need to either reevaluate their teaching philosophies or just go all in on the high contact, bat-to-ball guys they've consistently developed well.

I mean when I am running a team on MLB the Show or OOTP I always go for a certain type of player first and that is contact with plate discipline and a good batters eye.

It feels like to me the Indians have been doing too much of pure potential/athleticism with position players and not enough just natural swingers. That's why I was glad we got Owen Miller since he fits in more of my type of bat.
 
Agreed on Davis.

Still don't really understand the love for Andujar, either.

He doesn't have a position and the bat hasn't returned to 2018 form. I know he's been injured and has only had ~100 PA's in two years but that's a lot of risk especially as a key piece in a Lindor trade. I'd rather swing for Dominguez or Alcantara or Duran or Vargas TBH.

My ideal trade would be for a young Major Leaguer with hopefully less than a year of service time (a former/current top 100 prospect) + a high upside low level prospect (current/future top 100 prospect) + one or two older upper minors depth piece(s) with back of the rotation, middle relief or utility position player potential.

LOL at the Indians INF comment. True! FWIW, I don't think the Indians were wrong in letting Urshela go.... people forget he was with the Jays before going to the Yankees. All credit goes to the Yanks for re-working his swing. I find the Indians hitting development to be very frustrating at times and think it's something they need to reevaluate. They've really struggled to develop power bats. I feel like they need to either reevaluate their teaching philosophies or just go all in on the high contact, bat-to-ball guys they've consistently developed well.
Kieboom and/or Robles fit that description.
 
I really go the opposite way with this.

If the playoffs remain expanded to 8 teams per league, which it sure seems like they will be, I have a suspicion the Indians feel their pitching is going to be more than good enough to get one of those 8 spots whether they have Lindor or not.

So to that end, I really think they will skew towards prospects over MLB players.

The pitching is going to be more than good enough to get them there, but a struggling offense that is about to shed one of its most productive hitters will need some help. That could be the understatement of the year. They will not "skew towards prospects" in a Lindor trade. He will have to be replaced and they have severely limited resources to add FA.

The only way they'll lean towards prospects in return for Lindor is if they trade one of their young SP for positional help.
 
The pitching is going to be more than good enough to get them there, but a struggling offense that is about to shed one of its most productive hitters will need some help. That could be the understatement of the year. They will not "skew towards prospects" in a Lindor trade. He will have to be replaced and they have severely limited resources to add FA.

The only way they'll lean towards prospects in return for Lindor is if they trade one of their young SP for positional help.

If the playoffs go back to old format, then maybe. If they stay expanded to 8 teams per league, I just don’t agree with you.

The Indians had one of the very worst offenses in the American League this year with Lindor and Santana both having the worst years of their respective careers by pretty wide margins and still comfortably made the playoffs with 8 full games to spare over the 9th seed. On top of that they’re bringing back the No. 1 pitching staff in the league.

Barring a significant number of injuries, the Indians are going to make the playoffs next year if it stays at 8 teams. The pitching is too good and the hitting really can’t get *that* much worse than it already is.
 

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