Trading Collin Sexton or Darius Garland

I would try to trade Collin in a three teamer for John Collins with obi toppin/quickly and a pick from NYK to ATL honestly. If the above scenario of jalen green or Suggs is the guy we draft. I think Jarrett Allen and okoro are perfect compliments defensively to Collins, and he gets you 20+ a night

ETA: this is obviously a rough idea and all teams would have to WANT to trade those players but I was responding to the post asking what I would look for in a trade. As far as we know, ATL doesn’t want to max out Collins so there is the workings of something there….

Even at the time, I couldn't believe the value that Orlando got for Vucevic -- and how the entirety of the NBA praised that deal for the Bulls. The Magic will end up with something like the 8th overall pick this year, the 13th overall pick in 2023, and Wendell Carter, who seems to have rejuvenated his career a bit.

Maybe it's unrealistic, but if we're moving Sexton -- 8 years younger than Vucevic & IMO a more valuable player already in the modern NBA, who will be under team control for at least probably 4-5 more years -- I'd want a similar package.

We won't be trading Sexton to a rebuilding team. We're a rebuilding team. We'll be trading him to a team who views him as a missing piece and a major way to improve their team right now and going forward. If we're not getting a lottery pick, another first, and a young asset, no thank you.

"MVP" said:

Even at the time, I couldn't believe the value that Orlando got for Vucevic -- and how the entirety of the NBA praised that deal for the Bulls. The Magic will end up with something like the 8th overall pick this year, the 13th overall pick in 2023, and Wendell Carter, who seems to have rejuvenated his career a bit.

Maybe it's unrealistic, but if we're moving Sexton -- 8 years younger than Vucevic & IMO a more valuable player already in the modern NBA, who will be under team control for at least probably 4-5 more years -- I'd want a similar package.

We won't be trading Sexton to a rebuilding team. We're a rebuilding team. We'll be trading him to a team who views him as a missing piece and a major way to improve their team right now and going forward. If we're not getting a lottery pick, another first, and a young asset, no thank you.

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Vuc is an All-Star...Sexton couldn't even make All-Rookie.

adam81king said:

Vuc is an All-Star...Sexton couldn't even make All-Rookie.

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I don't know why but for some reason I get the feeling you don't like pro style players like Sexton you know the kind of basketball players that go get you 25 a game when nobody else can that kind lol

MVP said:

Even at the time, I couldn't believe the value that Orlando got for Vucevic -- and how the entirety of the NBA praised that deal for the Bulls. The Magic will end up with something like the 8th overall pick this year, the 13th overall pick in 2023, and Wendell Carter, who seems to have rejuvenated his career a bit.

Maybe it's unrealistic, but if we're moving Sexton -- 8 years younger than Vucevic & IMO a more valuable player already in the modern NBA, who will be under team control for at least probably 4-5 more years -- I'd want a similar package.

We won't be trading Sexton to a rebuilding team. We're a rebuilding team. We'll be trading him to a team who views him as a missing piece and a major way to improve their team right now and going forward. If we're not getting a lottery pick, another first, and a young asset, no thank you.

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I have said it before but there is really no chance they get good value for Sexton right now and trading him is not going to happen unless Altman wants to make sure he loses his job.

Willard513 said:

I actually strongly agree with the bolded, but I think it proves my point more. If we were in the playoffs, teams would let Collin go for 40 and try and take garland out of the game because we would have 0 ball movement and play to their advantage. I also disagree with the idea of “going and getting it”. Thats not always just scoring, and can be a multitude of things from running a PnR to iso, both of which garland is better at in terms of getting the defense out of position and making a play.

It’s just my opinion but I think teams would be neutralizing sextons impact by letting him go for 40 and hunkering down on everyone else. That’s actually hurting the cavs more in a playoff game than it would help. Taking garland out of the game would be more advantageous to the opposing team then letting Collin go for 40 in a clunky offense.

I again want to make clear, I don’t think they need to trade Collin or Darius now, but by august I imagine we will know which way they are leaning in relation to the future based on roster construction and potential sexton extension/draft pick choice.

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Is this all under the assumption we could make the playoffs with the current roster? Some of the regular season problems with the team is there aren't players that can step up when team try to take one player out of the game. Garland is one of those players but hopefully he can grow into being able to step up when needed.

We see teams try to stop Garland already and Sexton can step up but he literally has no help. Sexton is use to the double team and it's pretty rare for him to have a off night. When he does have a off night, we have rarely seen Garland able to step up. Teams could pick to stop either Sexton or Garland in the playoffs or any regular season game with this roster and would be successful.

What this team needs is more talent and not trying to trade away talent or just replace them with draft picks. We aren't getting equal talent back if we trade Sexton, he is a undersized SG. Truly who is giving up good value for a undersized SG.

Koby needs to just figure out how to build around Garland, Sexton, Okoro, and whoever we pick this year. Anyone else on the roster should be used to find players to make up for the flaws of our core.

Ozone said:

I don't know why but for some reason I get the feeling you don't like pro style players like Sexton you know the kind of basketball players that go get you 25 a game when nobody else can that kind lol

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You have said that you want players that "shoot contested threes and bad percentage shots." If that's what you mean by "pro style players," than yeah, I'll pass on that. Putting up numbers doesn't impress me when it comes at the expense of your teammates and doesn't even lead to winning games. NBA media, coaches, fans, etc think Vuc is more valuable than Sexton. There's evidence of that because of all the things Vuc has accomplished that require votes. Those same thing Collin hasn't.

The funny thing is, I don't hate Sexton. I think he has value to a team. I just think that value is as a mercenary off the bench, not a vital cog on a championship-level team. The fact that a vast majority of folks whose livelihood depends on their accuracy think the same isn't a coincidence. Collin is a 6'1" SG. Not many of those succeed. I've said many times that if Collin had a better basketball IQ he could be Donovan Mitchell. If he was able to shift gears and play at different paces and/or realize his teammates exist and are capable of doing things too, he'd be closer to Mitchell. Until then, the team isn't going anywhere with him being the #1 option or highest use player. He's a shorter Andrew Wiggins right now.

Cavatt said:

Yeah that's what I am thinking, but those picks aren't very good. Why do you want a bunch of late picks? Which of those will nab you a better player than Sexton?

With Quickly you have a 6th man and Bullock gives you a 3 and D with size. Are they for trades? It's sort of low odds you get a better player than Quickly with those.

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Basically whatever the Knicks would be willing to offer wouldn't actually make this team better. We lack top level talent. If the Knick don't offer up Barrett or Randle (and they won't), we just are trading Sexton for a group of lesser talented players. That's the last thing this team needs. We have too much 2nd unit level rotation players on this roster already.

It's actually why I think if someone has to be traded, even though I don't believe either needs to be, Garland is the one to trade. He can be that missing piece of a team that can get back a high draft pick or equally talented player at another position.

A PG like Garland can get us a scoring wing back. I just can't see a team willing to get smaller in this day and age of the NBA to bring in a undersized SG and give up the value of what Sexton is worth.

Ozone said:

I don't know why but for some reason I get the feeling you don't like pro style players like Sexton you know the kind of basketball players that go get you 25 a game when nobody else can that kind lol

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inliner311 said:

Basically whatever the Knicks would be willing to offer wouldn't actually make this team better. We lack top level talent. If the Knick don't offer up Barrett or Randle (and they won't), we just are trading Sexton for a group of lesser talented players. That's the last thing this team needs. We have too much 2nd unit level rotation players on this roster already.

It's actually why I think if someone has to be traded, even though I don't believe either needs to be, Garland is the one to trade. He can be that missing piece of a team that can get back a high draft pick or equally talented player at another position.

A PG like Garland can get us a scoring wing back. I just can't see a team willing to get smaller in this day and age of the NBA to bring in a undersized SG and give up the value of what Sexton is worth.

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So then you are good with maxing Sexton? Because I am not.
Was listening to Jason Lloyd yesterday and his opinion was you have to trade Sexton
because if you max him you are going to have a salary cap mess on your hands in a few years...
also in my mind you can't start Garland and Sexton together, its too much of a defensive mismatch
that teams can exploit. The teams ceiling is limited win wise if you go down that road.

WorldFreeB said:

So then you are good with maxing Sexton? Because I am not.
Was listening to Jason Lloyd yesterday and his opinion was you have to trade Sexton
because if you max him you are going to have a salary cap mess on your hands in a few years...
also in my mind you can't start Garland and Sexton together, its too much of a defensive mismatch
that teams can exploit. The teams ceiling is limited win wise if you go down that road.

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On the other hand. If he is untradeable after you max him, then why would you max him? If anther team is amenable to maxing him in RFA then someone would trade for him too? You can't have it both ways that he is untradeable on a max, but if he makes it to RFA, another team will max him.

I think he signs a less than max offer that is very good or gets something similar from another team that we match.

WorldFreeB said:

So then you are good with maxing Sexton? Because I am not.
Was listening to Jason Lloyd yesterday and his opinion was you have to trade Sexton
because if you max him you are going to have a salary cap mess on your hands in a few years...
also in my mind you can't start Garland and Sexton together, its too much of a defensive mismatch
that teams can exploit. The teams ceiling is limited win wise if you go down that road.

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Do you happen to remember where he said it? 92.3 or a podcast? I’ve got some time today and even though he has been pretty sour on the cavs the past few years, I’ll take any cavs content lol.

Also, they are an absolutely exploitable defensive duo so ya I’m not sure where the long term prospects are for them together. It’s interesting because Sexton has the length to guard 2’s with a 6’7ish? wingspan but doesn’t have the IQ to put himself in the right position to do it, e.g. dying on screens constantly. Garland is just a bad defender due to size and strength, but he seems to be a decent positional/team defender indicating a decent defensive IQ. Either way, neither are good so it’s moot but it’s an interesting wrinkle.

Depending on the draft, I’m of the mindset okoro should start at the 2 or 3 and defend the other teams best player no matter what. One of Sexton or garland can come off the bench unless they get screwed with the draft and get a Scotty Barnes, then it’s a free for all and I have no idea what they do then…

being practical, like the kind of people who have to eat dessert at home because they won't justify the cost of it, the one or two times a month they can afford to eat out, or settling for chips and salsa refills, until they hit their two drink limit.It is NOT how an NBA owner ever ever ever thinks about things.Not when he is trying to keep talent on the roster. You absolutely don't trade Sexton. You absolutely give him the max to lock him up it's not rocket science.
Anyone saying otherwise is in complete denial of his skill level. It is one thing to complain about fit as motivation, it's another to try to move your top dog this close to the end of a contract and expect it to return fruit worth eating.

Ozone said:

being practical, like the kind of people who have to eat dessert at home because they won't justify the cost of it, the one or two times a month they can afford to eat out, or settling for chips and salsa refills, until they hit their two drink limit.It is NOT how an NBA owner ever ever ever thinks about things.Not when he is trying to keep talent on the roster. You absolutely don't trade Sexton. You absolutely give him the max to lock him up it's not rocket science.
Anyone saying otherwise is in complete denial of his skill level. It is one thing to complain about fit as motivation, it's another to try to move your top dog this close to the end of a contract and expect it to return fruit worth eating.

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No way do I give a one dimensional player a max deal. Sexton is not elite, he’s not even an all star. On a good team he’s a third option.

Ozone said:

being practical, like the kind of people who have to eat dessert at home because they won't justify the cost of it, the one or two times a month they can afford to eat out, or settling for chips and salsa refills, until they hit their two drink limit.It is NOT how an NBA owner ever ever ever thinks about things.Not when he is trying to keep talent on the roster. You absolutely don't trade Sexton. You absolutely give him the max to lock him up it's not rocket science.
Anyone saying otherwise is in complete denial of his skill level. It is one thing to complain about fit as motivation, it's another to try to move your top dog this close to the end of a contract and expect it to return fruit worth eating.

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I hate overripe fruit.