Minor League Game Thread 5/1-5/7

sportscoach said:

Also you need around 10 SPs on your 40 man, if we move Bieber, Civale/Quan and Plesac, who are our 10?

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So what was once our strength can quickly become our weakness? It is an argument that they got to back fill this system quickly (push up our Lake County crew). And, you are also assuming that we get no one in return - which is part of the reason, you need to trade Bieber (to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and get prospects when you can - if his trade value goes up).

Top 5 - Bieber, McK, Bibee, Allen, Williams (you just don't hold good talent back too long)
Next 5 - Curry, Morris, Cantillo, Gaddis, Battenfield, Burns, Leftwich, Carver, Stanley , Nikhazy, Mace (sb nearer to top these last 3 but are struggling)

There is plenty of depth even if you combine a few of the injuries, as I left of Espino for 12 month recovery and Campbell. I am worried that we have heard nothing on Morris and he hasn't started a rehab assignment even (in 30-day window). So I get some of your argument but they need to start pushing that 2021 draft group as most will need roster protection after next year anyways which includes Webb who could have been close to 1st rounder. And, if we are trading (2-3) the kit and kaboodle (to tank season), no one will complain about a Touki for a few starts to bridge the gap in case of injuries.

And, the other pitcher that should be a quick mover (like Mace Webb) ...

Wham with the Right Hand said:

At the end of his month trade Quantrill and go with Bieber, McKenzie, Bibee, Allen, and Civale. Next time Civale gets hurt (shouldn't be more than a few weeks), bring up Williams.

Next year after the Bieber trade for a centerfielder who can rake the rotation will be McKenzie, Bibee, Allen, Williams, and Cantillo. Two lefties - OMG!

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LOL

I see no reason to wait until next year to trade Bieber. I fully expect him to be somewhere else by the deadline.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

Are you saying we should let Bieber play out his contract and walk?

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I believe we should... Give him the Qualifying Offer so we get draft compensation...

Anyone who is going to trade for Bieber is going to be a contending team more than likely, so on paper, we are getting prospects back, which is cool and all, but is that going to help us win in 24?

He would be going into a contract year where he can make big bucks with a successful season... Making your rotation Bieber, TMac, Quan/Civale, Allen, Bibee... Making your Williams your 6th man in a sense, then having Curry, Gaddis, Cantillo, Morris, Battenfield etc mixed in should make us a contender no problem with the pitching... I just personally feel way more comfortable if we have Bieber out there with the young guys...

petes999 said:

So what was once our strength can quickly become our weakness? It is an argument that they got to back fill this system quickly (push up our Lake County crew). And, you are also assuming that we get no one in return - which is part of the reason, you need to trade Bieber (to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and get prospects when you can - if his trade value goes up).

Top 5 - Bieber, McK, Bibee, Allen, Williams (you just don't hold good talent back too long)
Next 5 - Curry, Morris, Cantillo, Gaddis, Battenfield, Burns, Leftwich, Carver, Stanley , Nikhazy, Mace (sb nearer to top these last 3 but are struggling)

There is plenty of depth even if you combine a few of the injuries, as I left of Espino for 12 month recovery and Campbell. I am worried that we have heard nothing on Morris and he hasn't started a rehab assignment even (in 30-day window). So I get some of your argument but they need to start pushing that 2021 draft group as most will need roster protection after next year anyways which includes Webb who could have been close to 1st rounder. And, if we are trading (2-3) the kit and kaboodle (to tank season), no one will complain about a Touki for a few starts to bridge the gap in case of injuries.

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Some people on here are all ready to trade Plesac, Bieber, Quan and Civale and use whatever we get plus TMac, Bibee, Williams, and Allen as our rotation. If this was OOTP... I would probably do just that, but in real life, I don't think we should. I just feel having Bieber with his MLB experience and whatnot is more important than finding more prospects. We have a good farm and outside of missing some power bats in a sense, what are we missing in our farm system?

IF we get an overpay for Bieber, on paper, we should take it, but I hate going into the playoffs which such a young team personally. Also can we project anything outside of prospects back for Bieber? Which contending team is going to give us an MLB ready player of high rank for a rental?

If we look at the rest of the roster... Our INF should be fine... We may need a catcher, depending on how Naylor is... We might need one more OF depending on how OGonz is doing...

We arent getting 2/3 hole production on paper from C, thats for sure and FA, outside of Ohtani, really isnt all that strong... which means we need to find a way to get production through a trade. Bieber, isnt going to net us an All-star RF bat... HE isnt going to net us that last piece, not as a rental... Even this season, I am not sure he would by himself either... Thats just my opinion, but I feel like Bieber isnt going to net us something that will help us win more games in 23 and 24...

petes999 said:

And, the other pitcher that should be a quick mover (like Mace) ...

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@petes999
Sorry Pete. I would not call Mace a fast mover.
Gavin Williams/ Tanner Bibee .... yes, they are fast movers.

Did you mean someone other than Mace??

MadThinker88 said:

@petes999
Sorry Pete. I would not call Mace a fast mover.
Gavin Williams/ Tanner Bibee .... yes, they are fast movers.

Did you mean someone other than Mace??

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Meant Webb (sorry was thinking the 4-letter starter but typed it wrong, a bit tired today) ... just think after his TJS, things will start clicking this summer (so far 2-good games -- 2-bad games - still fighting the control but was 5-1 K/W in last 2 years at Georgia and in last 2 starts last year)

sportscoach said:

I believe we should... Give him the Qualifying Offer so we get draft compensation...

Anyone who is going to trade for Bieber is going to be a contending team more than likely, so on paper, we are getting prospects back, which is cool and all, but is that going to help us win in 24?

He would be going into a contract year where he can make big bucks with a successful season... Making your rotation Bieber, TMac, Quan/Civale, Allen, Bibee... Making your Williams your 6th man in a sense, then having Curry, Gaddis, Cantillo, Morris, Battenfield etc mixed in should make us a contender no problem with the pitching... I just personally feel way more comfortable if we have Bieber out there with the young guys...




Some people on here are all ready to trade Plesac, Bieber, Quan and Civale and use whatever we get plus TMac, Bibee, Williams, and Allen as our rotation. If this was OOTP... I would probably do just that, but in real life, I don't think we should. I just feel having Bieber with his MLB experience and whatnot is more important than finding more prospects. We have a good farm and outside of missing some power bats in a sense, what are we missing in our farm system?

IF we get an overpay for Bieber, on paper, we should take it, but I hate going into the playoffs which such a young team personally. Also can we project anything outside of prospects back for Bieber? Which contending team is going to give us an MLB ready player of high rank for a rental?

If we look at the rest of the roster... Our INF should be fine... We may need a catcher, depending on how Naylor is... We might need one more OF depending on how OGonz is doing...

We arent getting 2/3 hole production on paper from C, thats for sure and FA, outside of Ohtani, really isnt all that strong... which means we need to find a way to get production through a trade. Bieber, isnt going to net us an All-star RF bat... HE isnt going to net us that last piece, not as a rental... Even this season, I am not sure he would by himself either... Thats just my opinion, but I feel like Bieber isnt going to net us something that will help us win more games in 23 and 24...

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Are prospects helping us win this year? I wonder how many more wins we'd have if one of Arias, Rocchio or Freeman were starting in place of Amed? I wonder how fewer wins we'd have without Allen, Bibee and Battenfield making their debuts?

Letting Bieber walk is nothing short of stupid. Absolutely asinine if they choose to do something so foolish. They haven't in the past so I'm not expecting them to do so now. Bieber would absolutely net us a couple of players that could help this year and going forward. How can you suggest we can't win without him and then suggest we wouldn't get anything but low level prospects in return? Say something that makes sense please.

Going into the playoffs with this current roster won't make a difference if Bieber is or isn't on it. Nobody gives a fuck about OOTP and real life is screaming in your face to get the talented prospects that are ready in Cleveland because they are simply better. Amed should be somewhere else and Arias and Rocchio battling it out for SS duties.

There's a decision to be made with the OF and the direction they want to go because this one isn't productive offensively. If they want to win then Kwan, Straw and Brennan cannot be out there at the same time unless it's for defense late in the game. Be interesting to see what they do.

The Twins series could become the starting point for either a turnaround.. or a continued aimless/rudderless season for the Guards.. It's a single series.. but... If things do not go the Guardians way.. the CleFO might have to take a step back and do some deep thinking..

One thought might be.. imaginative

hmm... imagine productive prospects backing up and/or manning two or three spots in the lineup..

-Tyler Freeman... 2B (350 hitter showing signs of pop)
-Brayan Rocchio... SS (350 hitter who's hotter than Freeman)
-Gabriel Arias.... SS/2B/3B/1B (finally given a real chance)

Three guys for two/three spots (giving Jose a day off his feet).. ..on a team that has proven to be more than a little bit flawed.. (read: it isn't working as constructed)

If the cost is one of Civale/Plesac &/or Rosario.. the Guardians lineup is lengthened by at least one ML position player who has a clue on how to hit and is a fine addition defensively.. This makes sense as there is quality depth in every way, albeit younger, that can impact the club..

The return in trade has to be at least one ML SP that isn't being questioned for the crime of arson (Plesac/Civale).. It could also have the collateral benefit of lengthening the pen..

If it's someone like Andres that is traded (mentioned more than a week ago).. then the return has a much more dramatic effect on the ML roster and holes in the MiLB system..

Everyone already knows that Andres was extended..
Everyone already knows that the Guardians would love to see Andres grow into and old Guardian..
Repeat the merely obvious is only for fools..

but, what if?

Gson said:

The Twins series could become the starting point for either a turnaround.. or a continued aimless/rudderless season for the Guards.. It's a single series.. but... If things do not go the Guardians way.. the CleFO might have to take a step back and do some deep thinking..

One thought might be.. imaginative

hmm... imagine productive prospects backing up and/or manning two or three spots in the lineup..

-Tyler Freeman... 2B (350 hitter showing signs of pop)
-Brayan Rocchio... SS (350 hitter who's hotter than Freeman)
-Gabriel Arias.... SS/2B/3B/1B (finally given a real chance)

Three guys for two/three spots (giving Jose a day off his feet).. ..on a team that has proven to be more than a little bit flawed.. (read: it isn't working as constructed)

If the cost is one of Civale/Plesac &/or Rosario.. the Guardians lineup is lengthened by at least one ML position player who has a clue on how to hit and is a fine addition defensively.. This makes sense as there is quality depth in every way, albeit younger, that can impact the club..

The return in trade has to be at least one ML SP that isn't being questioned for the crime of arson (Plesac/Civale).. It could also have the collateral benefit of lengthening the pen..

If it's someone like Andres that is traded (mentioned more than a week ago).. then the return has a much more dramatic effect on the ML roster and holes in the MiLB system..

Everyone already knows that Andres was extended..
Everyone already knows that the Guardians would love to see Andres grow into and old Guardian..
Repeat the merely obvious is only for fools..

but, what if?

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Then why are you repeating the fact that Gimenez isn't available yet are willing to mention trading him...

We don't need what ifs right now, we need to look at the realistic picture and find a way to upgrade the roster within the framework of how the team does things...

We all know Gimenez is off the trading table, period... He's not available, so don't point out he is... Yes he would merit a ton back, but we wouldn't have extended him if they were even willing to listen to offers...

Let's look at who is then...

We have a ton of MIF prospects, and Rosario, Plesac etc...

Being realistic and following how this team does things and not you Gson, they would find a way to upgrade/compliment who we have...

Everyone here is okay with replacing Rosario and having Freeman, Rocchio, Arias all MLB ready, I think that's a good idea...

My question is now, can we turn our excess MIF, pitching, Rosario, add in Gonzalez, into the player we need... I think we can and I think that's the approach the FO is going to take... They are going to try to condense the talent we have into a trade... Aka Miller trade but for a bat I think is going to happen this season...

sportscoach said:

Then why are you repeating the fact that Gimenez isn't available yet are willing to mention trading him...

We don't need what ifs right now, we need to look at the realistic picture and find a way to upgrade the roster within the framework of how the team does things...

We all know Gimenez is off the trading table, period... He's not available, so don't point out he is... Yes he would merit a ton back, but we wouldn't have extended him if they were even willing to listen to offers...

Let's look at who is then...

We have a ton of MIF prospects, and Rosario, Plesac etc...

Being realistic and following how this team does things and not you Gson, they would find a way to upgrade/compliment who we have...

Everyone here is okay with replacing Rosario and having Freeman, Rocchio, Arias all MLB ready, I think that's a good idea...

My question is now, can we turn our excess MIF, pitching, Rosario, add in Gonzalez, into the player we need... I think we can and I think that's the approach the FO is going to take... They are going to try to condense the talent we have into a trade... Aka Miller trade but for a bat I think is going to happen this season...

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It's not a fact..

If they realistically, easily..etc.. etc..can do X.. why hasn't it happened..?????

You don't speak for everyone....

The player we need "being undefined" means everyone to no one.. easily done..

One thing I don't understand is this

sportscoach said:

Being realistic and following how this team does things and not you Gson, they would find a way to upgrade/compliment who we have...

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You limit the fun of talking about what CAN be done by having this sorta abstract formulaic view of how the FO work when I don't even think they're all that rigid. For instance they weren't going to call up Bibee because that's just how they do things. Well they did call up Bibee because the need was there for it.

But even if they were that rigid I don't know why we can't criticize the current approach and talk about what can be done...

It's like a poster will present an idea and you'll respond with "this won't happen" when the idea wasn't even presented as a prediction. And besides it's more fun to talk about the merits and demerits of said ideas even if they never are going to happen.

KluberSociety said:

One thing I don't understand is this

You limit the fun of talking about what CAN be done by having this sorta abstract formulaic view of how the FO work when I don't even think they're all that rigid. For instance they weren't going to call up Bibee because that's just how they do things. Well they did call up Bibee because the need was there for it.

But even if they were that rigid I don't know why we can't criticize the current approach and talk about what can be done...

It's like a poster will present an idea and you'll respond with "this won't happen" when the idea wasn't even presented as a prediction. And besides it's more fun to talk about the merits and demerits of said ideas even if they never are going to happen.

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there is a name for someone who does that, KS...

and he knows it..

KluberSociety said:

One thing I don't understand is this

You limit the fun of talking about what CAN be done by having this sorta abstract formulaic view of how the FO work when I don't even think they're all that rigid. For instance they weren't going to call up Bibee because that's just how they do things. Well they did call up Bibee because the need was there for it.

But even if they were that rigid I don't know why we can't criticize the current approach and talk about what can be done...

It's like a poster will present an idea and you'll respond with "this won't happen" when the idea wasn't even presented as a prediction. And besides it's more fun to talk about the merits and demerits of said ideas even if they never are going to happen.

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This is also the game thread and not the GM thread, where those ideas happen...

Plus I don't see how anyone can even remotely believe Gimenez is available at all. He's not, so why even mention trades with him in them? We are looking to compliment Gimenez not trade him...

Plus Bibee only got called up cause of injuries... If TMac or Civale doesn't get hurt, he's not being called up. Injuries change plans...

sportscoach said:

This is also the game thread and not the GM thread, where those ideas happen...

Plus I don't see how anyone can even remotely believe Gimenez is available at all. He's not, so why even mention trades with him in them? We are looking to compliment Gimenez not trade him...

Plus Bibee only got called up cause of injuries... If TMac or Civale doesn't get hurt, he's not being called up. Injuries change plans...

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Disagree.... And Plesac getting demoted? And Gaddis?

Criznit said:

Disagree.... And Plesac getting demoted? And Gaddis?

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We aren't trading Gimenez, that's pretty much a fact...

Bibee got his rotation spot cause of the injury, he was behind Battenfield and Allen in the depth charts.

Gaddis, was struggling so him going down was normal. I never really said anything about him...

They do have a tendency to give veteran players a longer leash, though Plesac isnt exactly someone that fits the norm though since they have been trying to trade him... (And it's hard for Plesac to compete with what guys like Allen and Bibee have done since their call ups).