2009-2010 Season: Mike Brown's Player Rotation Chart:

[Spencer Hawes]

The only consolation I find in these two losses is that it's the first two games. We got another 80 to go to figure this thing out lol.

 

[rabman_gold]

Karl and Van Gundy would improve this team, brown isn't anywhere near them. However, at some point the players have to play, so you cant blame brown for that.

:shakehead

Karl was the guy who let Ariza steal the ball in a critical game stretch in the Western Conference Finals...

And sure... Van Gundy can coach Xs and Os, but if he doesn't have the trust of the players and they don't like him (panic, hollering, etc.), nothing good will come out of that. It's worse than Van Gundy losing the NBA Finals badly. You thought it was bad with the Magic, but on a team like the Cavs, they'll quit immediately...

Brown may not have their smarts and ability to adjust, but you're seriously underrating Brown's ability to perform under playoff pressure (which Karl hasn't had at all {1985-2009; with the Cavs against the 85 Celtics, with the Supersonics against the 96 Bulls, with the Bucks against the 2001 76ers, and with the Nuggets against the 2009 Lakers})... and his ability to coach players comfortably (which Stan can't do worth shit{2005 with Heat Vs. Pistons, 2008 with Magic Vs. Pistons, and 2009 with Magic Vs. Lakers}).

 

[Spencer Hawes]

This is becoming eerily similar to Del Harris' situation in LA when he had Shaq and all that talent but couldn't bring home the trophy. The organization got rid of him and brought in Phil Jackson and voila! 3 championship! So my question is.....when is Larry Brown coming to town muahahahahah!

 

[Zog]

:shakehead

Karl was the guy who let Ariza steal the ball in a critical game stretch in the Western Conference Finals...

And sure... Van Gundy can coach Xs and Os, but if he doesn't have the trust of the players and they don't like him (panic, hollering, etc.), nothing good will come out of that. It's worse than Van Gundy losing the NBA Finals badly. You thought it was bad with the Magic, but on a team like the Cavs, they'll quit immediately...

Not that I necessarily think Karl or Van Gundy are the answer, but two things:

1. Karl wasn't the one who threw the ball in, he is only the coach.
2. I think he was referring to Jeff Van Gundy, not Stan.

 

[Snarly]

This is becoming eerily similar to Del Harris' situation in LA when he had Shaq and all that talent but couldn't bring home the trophy. The organization got rid of him and brought in Phil Jackson and voila! 3 championship! So my question is.....when is Larry Brown coming to town muahahahahah!

..... Well It Is close to Halloween, So hopefully This Is the Cavs Haunted house act. AS far the coaching I bet Danny Ferry went into the meeting and Hit him upside the head and said.

Where are you
Why so blue
Who Is who
What do we do?
Everything is done
Lets have some fun
Lets think what got us here
Lets not play off fear
Let us realize
everything Is here
Lets just think
Lets give thought of why we think
Everything Is here
But our fans
We forget our selfs
We need such help
We are not better
than what they see In the mirror

Everyone Is human

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

80 games left in the season.

Z and Shaq should be a total of 20 minutes of floor time together the rest of the season. It can only work against certain teams in certain situations.

 

[Ruggeder]

:shakehead

Karl was the guy who let Ariza steal the ball in a critical game stretch in the Western Conference Finals...

And sure... Van Gundy can coach Xs and Os, but if he doesn't have the trust of the players and they don't like him (panic, hollering, etc.), nothing good will come out of that. It's worse than Van Gundy losing the NBA Finals badly. You thought it was bad with the Magic, but on a team like the Cavs, they'll quit immediately...

Brown may not have their smarts and ability to adjust, but you're seriously underrating Brown's ability to perform under playoff pressure (which Karl hasn't had at all {1985-2009; with the Cavs against the 85 Celtics, with the Supersonics against the 96 Bulls, with the Bucks against the 2001 76ers, and with the Nuggets against the 2009 Lakers})... and his ability to coach players comfortably (which Stan can't do worth shit{2005 with Heat Vs. Pistons, 2008 with Magic Vs. Pistons, and 2009 with Magic Vs. Lakers}).

First of all I did mean Jeff van Gundy. I should have put his full name knowing there are two. Second a coach never allows a steal, he's a coach, that's like saying Brown got dunked on by Bosh. I realize the two examples I used aren't red aurbach, but no one is, and there still better then Brown, and really I can't believe there is anyone in the NBA who would prefer Brown to coach there team over the two gentlemen I listed.

But your criticism's of Stan VG are true, although he did get to the finals, and yes he had a better team then the cavs, but there was still coaching in there, he didn't just ride one player there like Brown has.

 

[Cavatt]

80 games left in the season.

Z and Shaq should be a total of 20 minutes of floor time together the rest of the season. It can only work against certain teams in certain situations.

Biggest problem I have with this is that I saw Z jumping out on the Perimeter like he did last year when he got hurt. He can guard a guy out to the free throw line, but to the 3 is ridiculous.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

First of all I did mean Jeff van Gundy. I should have put his full name knowing there are two. Second a coach never allows a steal, he's a coach, that's like saying Brown got dunked on by Bosh. I realize the two examples I used aren't red aurbach, but no one is, and there still better then Brown, and really I can't believe there is anyone in the NBA who would prefer Brown to coach there team over the two gentlemen I listed.

But your criticism's of Stan VG are true, although he did get to the finals, and yes he had a better team then the cavs, but there was still coaching in there, he didn't just ride one player there like Brown has.

If you're mad about our offensive struggles, hiring Jeff Van Gundy is not the way to fix that.

 

[rabman_gold]

Not that I necessarily think Karl or Van Gundy are the answer, but two things:

1. Karl wasn't the one who threw the ball in, he is only the coach.
2. I think he was referring to Jeff Van Gundy, not Stan.

Fair enough, but I don't ever remember mentioning Jeff in the conversation (I used good 'ol Stan and Jeff isn't currently looking to get back into the league).

And Karl may not have been the one to throw the ball in, but who was it that set up that poor play? You count on your coach to set up the right play so you can get the ball, and you end up with a turnover in a critical stretch, nothing new for Mr. George Karl...

First of all I did mean Jeff van Gundy. I should have put his full name knowing there are two. Second a coach never allows a steal, he's a coach, that's like saying Brown got dunked on by Bosh. I realize the two examples I used aren't red aurbach, but no one is, and there still better then Brown, and really I can't believe there is anyone in the NBA who would prefer Brown to coach there team over the two gentlemen I listed.

But your criticism's of Stan VG are true, although he did get to the finals, and yes he had a better team then the cavs, but there was still coaching in there, he didn't just ride one player there like Brown has.

Jeff's not coming back, and he really didn't do THAT much better, did he? Houston didn't get far with him. The Knicks got pretty lucky with matchups early on in 1999 the lockout shortened season and fell on their face against San Antonio in 5 games.

What makes Brown so effective currently is the family-type atmosphere he has with Ferry calling the shots on players, Lance working behind the scenes, and Mike Brown working with the coaches. It's really the same as the Eastern San Antonio Spurs, which brings out Brown's full effectiveness and makes him better than the listed coaches. You're not going to convince me that immediately bringing in George Karl or Jeff will automatically make them a 60 win team.

If that happens, I can assure you that it throws off the chemistry. Players are out of rhythm. They no longer share a common motivation and goal. The coaches don't know how to get the championship. And we start from the beginning. It sets us back so much. I don't know what you're thinking, but we're talking about a coach that WANTS to play Coby Karl rotational minutes!

The only way our team can actually do better is by replacing Brown with an elite coach, which those earlier names are not. Karl and Jeff aren't even marginally better than Brown, rather you believe so or not.

The only coaches that should be replacing Brown (ASSUMING LeBron lost the trust in Brown) are:

• Phil Jackson
• Greg Popovich
• Larry Brown
• Pat Riley

Pat and Larry are also a little older, so it's not even assured that getting them would turn it around that much (Larry gets a pass for his 1 measly championship in 20 years...).

Those guys are the pure exception, so stop thinking that Jeff or Karl will make any difference when their own faults are as bad as Brown's lack of offensive awareness (lack of success, lack of respect, older age, not worth being set back for).

 

[BRInQ]

i'm just trying to understand what would possess any coach, rookie, average, elite coach, whatever, to ask z & shaq to guard Andrea & Bosh. Thats asking to get beat.

What even compunds the ugliness of it is this was a coach who just got knocked out of the playoffs for doing a similar thing against a team, who in my mind, we actually matched up better with comparing the two incidents.

WTF is brown thinking.

Why can't he sub & adjust by now?

Play JJ. let him make mistakes, help him get better. only play shaq & z together when appropriate. only let boobie hit the floor with a real pg, or lebron, west, maybe shaq.

lineups:
mo,parker,bron,av,shaq
boobie,moon,bron,av,z
boobie,moon,bron,jj,z

start 2nd
mo,parker,moon,jj,shaq
mo,parker,bron,jj,shaq

etc,etc,

something like that.

 

[rabman_gold]

We can't do much but let Brown figure it out. If it's bad enough to the point where the team is struggling badly, I expect those sort of changes to be made. I mean, he was desperate enough to play J.J. against Odom last year, right?

Still, let's not forget how much better he'll be once the Cavs feel Delonte can play, someone who's been able to guard point guards, shooting guard, and even some small forwards.

Anyways, I see what you're saying and agree with it, BRInQ. Let's just wait and see for Brown to figure it out himself. Expect changes to continue to be made until we're looking good (which you know will happen eventually).

 

[rabman_gold]

And just like that, a two game slide turns into a two game streak.

With Delonte back, Anthony become the backup small forward for when LeBron sits and we see the good old Z, Andy, LBJ, West, and Mo combo that made the team so successful. We also saw less of the twin towers while Shaq got a feel for the Andy, LBJ, West, and Mo combo on the court.

Good win, updated the rotation chart, which now hold 3 types of games:

• Blowout Wins
• Close Loses
• Blowout Loses

Should Jamario take the small forward minutes that Anthony stole? Or should West see more minutes? Let's discuss.

 

[Karma]

West and Parker should be in that 27-33 minute bracket depending on matchups / form on that particular night. Moon will become useful when we go small ball. I hate Moon as a two guard, so it is small forward or bust.

Moon's best opportunity is if Hickson continues to struggle and we go with LeBron at the four opening up extra perimeter minutes which then he should take.

I'm happy with our 8 man rotation (starters with West, Z and Gibson) right now. Moon and Hickson will be battling for 7-15 minutes that are left over.

 

[nime]

JaMario should take all of Gibson's minutes.

Gibson plays zero defense. His offense isn't that great either. Wasting our time playing him considering a contender will shut him down completely.

Give West the backup pg minutes, Moon should be playing with West, Z, and JJ off the bench. Gibson should be the 10th man.