2021-2022 Cavaliers General Discussion: Trade Deadline Edition

[ChicagoCavFan]

I haven't offered an opinion on Sexton but have read tons on these threads. Here is where I think some are selling him short:

Take an example - what if DG got hurt when Sexton did and Collin had to take over the reins. Recall, he did not have the triple towers or anything of the sort in his prior years. I am confident Sexton would have easily averaged more assists than any year prior, being more efficient from the field as he'd have much more open opportunity (especially playing a 2 man game with 3 bigs), and his defensive gravity would have increased as he has 2 of the top 5 defensive bigs in the game behind him. I'm seeing ranges below $15M a year now - and with the cap supposedly increasing more than ever, that is not going to get it done. $15 million will be the norm for a bench player, not a guy that can get you 25-10-5 on any given night (and with this improved line up over years past, that is not far-fetched). He has never had these weapons to work with, and he is one that is not selfish and would be looking for mates within the offensive flow.

Are people forgetting how good he can be? Or is it just a function of fit, thereby he deserves less money because he has to be the 6th man for this to work (BS in my opinion)?

 

[CavsKermit]

First, I was just responding to your own post where you brought up your wife and job, and combining that concept with your obvious and complete hatred for everything and anything that involves Sexton.

Second, almost everyone else here sees how Sexton could and would be an asset to this team as currently constructed, and many posts have been made justifying contract ideas on merits in relation to his actual value... except for you, who always undervalues and discounts Sexton as a player.

Over the span of his entire career Gordon has missed approx 40 games per season due to injury. He played 36 games in 2019-20 and 27 games last season. EGo has a 14 year track history of missing games. He's making $18 mil this season and the Rockets are still apparently demanding a FRP for him.

IOW you don't let youngish 20+ PPG scorers walk for nothing. If they can get him at $18 mil per season that will not only fill a need for scoring on this team but he will have trade value moving forward. Sexton averaged 24.3 PPG last season which was just behind Harden in that category. Gordon has only had 2 seasons where he averaged 20 PPG. Say what you want about Sexton but he's a walking bucket. He's coming off an injury and there are only a few teams (notably Detroit and San Antonio) that have big capspace this summer. The Cavs might be sitting in a good position to resign him at a decent rate. Apparently Sexton wants to remain with the team. We shall see..

So no comps, none, that suggest Sexton will be easy to trade making $18M per if the most optimistic projections don't come to pass.

 

[daytripper]

There's not a single other sixth man in the NBA who makes $18M per. Not one. The Jazz are struggling to move Clarkson for value, who won sixth man of the year last season, and he makes $13m per for two more seasons after this. Again, your asserting was that Sexton will be easy to trade at $18M per. He will not be easy to trade.

The Cap is supposed to jump by 2025. Gilbert has made a financial killing the past few years. I think he will pay to keep his good players. Most of us have watched both Clarkson and Sexton up close and Collin was the better player at a much younger age too. Clarkson didn't even get drafted until he was Collin's current age.

 

[daytripper]

So no comps, none, that suggest Sexton will be easy to trade making $18M per if the most optimistic projections don't come to pass.

Just look at broken down 33 year old Eric Gordon. The Rockets are demanding a FRP for him.

 

[CavsKermit]

I haven't offered an opinion on Sexton but have read tons on these threads. Here is where I think some are selling him short:

Take an example - what if DG got hurt when Sexton did and Collin had to take over the reins. Recall, he did not have the triple towers or anything of the sort in his prior years. I am confident Sexton would have easily averaged more assists than any year prior, being more efficient from the field as he'd have much more open opportunity (especially playing a 2 man game with 3 bigs), and his defensive gravity would have increased as he has 2 of the top 5 defensive bigs in the game behind him. I'm seeing ranges below $15M a year now - and with the cap supposedly increasing more than ever, that is not going to get it done. $15 million will be the norm for a bench player, not a guy that can get you 25-10-5 on any given night (and with this improved line up over years past, that is not far-fetched). He has never had these weapons to work with, and he is one that is not selfish and would be looking for mates within the offensive flow.

Are people forgetting how good he can be? Or is it just a function of fit, thereby he deserves less money because he has to be the 6th man for this to work (BS in my opinion)?

Sexton has played meaningful minutes with every player on the roster except for Mobley, and Mobley's function isn't going to stand out at the three point line as a decoy to give Sexton the spacing he needs to play well. That's not a thing. The inclusion of Mobley in the starting lineup makes it more difficult for Sexton to start, not less.

 

[B Mac]

Sexton has played meaningful minutes with every player on the roster except for Mobley, and Mobley's function isn't going to stand out at the three point line as a decoy to give Sexton the spacing he needs to play well. That's not a thing. The inclusion of Mobley in the starting lineup makes it more difficult for Sexton to start, not less.

That seems like a slippery slope comparing the last few years to this one. It’s a completely different team, even though it’s similar players. You also forgot Markk. That’s two new starters compared to half a season with Allen adjusting after the trade.

 

[CavsKermit]

The Cap is supposed to jump by 2025. Gilbert has made a financial killing the past few years. I think he will pay to keep his good players. Most of us have watched both Clarkson and Sexton up close and Collin was the better player at a much younger age too. Clarkson didn't even get drafted until he was Collin's current age.

First off, 2025? That's THREE years from now. So he might be on a moveable contract three or four years in? Also, I've heard this story when the Cavs overpaid TT and JR. Turns out that the cap going up doesn't magically transform bad deals into good ones.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

Sexton has played meaningful minutes with every player on the roster except for Mobley, and Mobley's function isn't going to stand out at the three point line as a decoy to give Sexton the spacing he needs to play well. That's not a thing. The inclusion of Mobley in the starting lineup makes it more difficult for Sexton to start, not less.

Says who ?

Yea, you're kinda off the reservation here CK....inconsistencies, etc. I may have missed it - is there a vendetta against Sexton? Maybe some other posters can catch me up....

 

[Peacedog]

Sexton has played meaningful minutes with every player on the roster except for Mobley, and Mobley's function isn't going to stand out at the three point line as a decoy to give Sexton the spacing he needs to play well. That's not a thing. The inclusion of Mobley in the starting lineup makes it more difficult for Sexton to start, not less.

Dude, why do you hate Collin Sexton so much? Do you want the Cavs to let him walk this off season and get nothing in return?

 

[dms]

Personal, ad hominem attacks aside, it's telling that people aren't really justifying a decision to pay Sexton big money on its own merits in relation to his actual market value.

I really don't get you. You are so worried about signing Sexton and now you only want to pay him 14 million a year, yet you are gung ho about paying 35 million a year to an aging CJ McCollum who you'd also have to give up assets to get. If McCollum was a free agent after this season, would anyone out there open their wallet to the tune of 35 million a year?? Is this a championship roster with McCollum, because with his 35 million they are beyond capped out the next 2 years?? If they are convinced Sexton is healthy, they will pay what is needed to get the deal done just like they did with Allen as they can't afford to let assets get away.

 

[cliffdawg]

More I think about in hearing he should be completely healthy this summer I’m more for keeping him, and hoping he fit that 6 man combo role were all hoping for, he going to get at minimum what LM got on his contract being in the same boat, I see 18M at the minimum but even touching JA contract of 20M …..Like someone said with the salary cap spiking 18 or 20M wouldn’t look the same as it does today……

 

[CavsKermit]

That seems like a slippery slope comparing the last few years to this one. It’s a completely different team, even though it’s similar players. You also forgot Markk. That’s two new starters compared to half a season with Allen adjusting after the trade.

Fair point on Lauri, but the response is that Sexton's selfish play caused Love to melt down when Beilein didn't rein in Sexton. He can't just use Lauri as a decoy. He's going to actually pass it to him or our chemistry, and unselfish play is going to implode. And this is my fundamental disconnect, especially with people who are still pretending he can start on this team. He's a very, very good scorer with the appropriate spacing and against the right kind of defenses, but he doesn't do anything else well. I'm sorry be he just doesn't. So if Sexton can't be Sexton with the starters, he's going to be a net negative on the floor with them.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

Is Colin someone you can give the ball to and tell him to go get a bucket. Hell yea he is - he has proven it over and over.

What are we lacking right now?

Many teams have multiple guys that they trust to get that done. We have one that came on this season (DG)...but that answer in August was only 1 person - Sexton. And now, because he is hurt, he deserves half of what he can get in an open market?

He's a very, very good scorer with the appropriate spacing and against the right kind of defenses, but he doesn't do anything else well. I'm sorry be he just doesn't.

His assists this season would have blown you away if he was playing instead of DG. I thought I read somewhere that he was one of the tops in the league over the last couple seasons on assists that should have occurred had his teammate finished (took into consideration how open the player was, distance to basket). He has finishers this season. Even when we got the Fro last year, he played like ass and look disinterested half the time. This year, he is an All Star. Would that have helped Sexton? Hell yea it would. I can easily say he would be over 7 assists per game this season with our lineup sans DG (he averaged 4.4 last year, DG is averaging 8.2 this season...Sexton would be up there near the top in the NBA).

 

[CavsKermit]

I really don't get you. You are so worried about signing Sexton and now you only want to pay him 14 million a year, yet you are gung ho about paying 35 million a year to an aging CJ McCollum who you'd also have to give up assets to get. If McCollum was a free agent after this season, would anyone out there open their wallet to the tune of 35 million a year?? Is this a championship roster with McCollum, because with his 35 million they are beyond capped out the next 2 years?? If they are convinced Sexton is healthy, they will pay what is needed to get the deal done just like they did with Allen as they can't afford to let assets get away

First off, I'm meh on acquiring CJ, That said, CJ and Sexton get their points from different parts of the floor and that really, really matters. CJ will open up the floor which will help our big men and Garland. Sexton shrinks it. If the Cavs had traded Sexton for Herro this summer, like they should have, we'd be much better offensively now.

 

[B Mac]

Says who ?

Yea, you're kinda off the reservation here CK....inconsistencies, etc. I may have missed it - is there a vendetta against Sexton? Maybe some other posters can catch me up....

I’m aware of who CK is off another message board. Good dude. Might be taking the Sexton slights a bit further than necessary but his point about Sexton being paid too much to be a 6th man has some validity. Although paying KLove his 30 million hasn’t hamstrung us as bad as I was afraid it would, so I guess we could do worse. Even still, every player, especially Sexton has value depending on contract size and length. Get him around $15 million for 3-4 years? I’m all over that.