23 Offseason GM Thread

[CDAV45]

I figured both Gimenez and TMac will likely get about the same type of contract...

You could be right Coach. Both put together pretty good small samples in 2020 then had down years in larger samples in 2021. Finally, both rebounded very well in 22 so their offers could be relatively close. I do think Gimenez is more likely to regress a bit, but that's just because his progress from 2021 to 2022 was immense. There is risk for Cleveland handing out a large extension to Andres, but there's also risk in losing the ability to extend him reasonably should he produce in 23 like he did last season. I suspect that both will accept a reasonable offer to stay with this up and coming team. The question being what is "reasonable"?

There is no gap between the rotation and the next wave of prospects. In fact, there's an argument that the back of the rotation can be improved with the current depth options. So much of this is dependent on how far they want to kick the can down the road. There's some inevitability and when is the best time to find out what some of these prospects can do? You want to do that now or next season because there is going to be a shit ton of turnover this time next year.

I feel certain that this team is better than it was last year, but I'm also confident that it's not as good as it will be next year and beyond. We've moved past acquiring talent to fill the roster, now we're at the stage where the best talent needs to be determined and played. Some decisions seem obvious to me.

 

[sportscoach]

You could be right Coach. Both put together pretty good small samples in 2020 then had down years in larger samples in 2021. Finally, both rebounded very well in 22 so their offers could be relatively close. I do think Gimenez is more likely to regress a bit, but that's just because his progress from 2021 to 2022 was immense. There is risk for Cleveland handing out a large extension to Andres, but there's also risk in losing the ability to extend him reasonably should he produce in 23 like he did last season. I suspect that both will accept a reasonable offer to stay with this up and coming team. The question being what is "reasonable"?

My guess is a 6 year deal between 60-70ish... This would get two FA years...

 

[CDAV45]

My guess is a 6 year deal between 60-70ish... This would get two FA years...

I think it would have to be closer to the "70ish", but yeah, that seems like a pretty good offer. Something tells me we'll know before ST reaches its end.

 

[CATS44]

The options this spring beyond our present rotation are...

Morris....threw 45 innings total last year, and never more than 89 in a season, working thru a string of health issues.

Curry
Gaddis
Pilkington
Battenfield

Next season, or perhaps...with good fortune...by the deadline...

Logan Allen, AAA last year.
Bibee...13 starts in AA.
Williams...16 starts in AA.
Espino....18 IP last year in AA, hurt the rest of the year, never thrown 100 IP in a season.
Cantillo...60.2 IP in AA last year, 13 IP in 2021....continuous health issues.

If you dont see the gap between 2023 and 2024, I can't help you.

If anybody continues to ignore the health issues as if they do not exist, I can't help them, either.

It is doubtful that, not counting injury, the rotation is gonna change anytime soon.

We watched, to the chagrin of some posters early on, the way that Tito and the staff babied the rotation last season. Does anybody really believe that this same staff is gonna immediately throw kids like Morris, Cantillo, and Espino into a full time starting workload, esp at the MLB level?

This season our rotational depth is bodies. Next year it should be high end talent.

If you look at the various prospect rankings, you can see the difference. I'm gonna use fangraphs to illustrate.

Espino, Williams, Bibee, and Allen are all in the top six team rankings.

Morris is 18th.
Curry is 23rd.
Castillo is 25th.
Gaddis is 37th.
Battenfield is 40th.
Last year Pilkington was 39th.

I dont think any poster really thinks that anybody in the second group matches up as a better prospect than those in the first group.

 

[CDAV45]

It's been mentioned numerous times and confirmed that counting in game innings isn't the end all, be all when determining workload. There is a lot of work and innings behind the scenes. If you want to continue to disregard that then I can't help you.

Why are we comparing prospects/rookies to other prospects/rookies? If you don't see that the BOR needs improved/upgraded then I can't help you. If you can't see how much more talented some of these prospects are then I can't help you.

The beauty of it is not only the depth, but the quality of it so nobody has to take on an unnecessary workload. If you can't see that then I can't help you.

You can wipe your ass with those rankings because they have no influence in determining who will succeed and who won't. Fangraphs are the same dipshits that didn't give Espino, Williams and Bibee much value until recently.

 

[sportscoach]

Cardinals & Guardians » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

@Gson @CDAV45

I'm curious what you think of that deal...

Cleveland gets
C Herrera
RHRP Woodford
SP McGreevey
1B Yepez

St. Louis gets
RP Karinchak
MIF Tena

I feel like it's closer to what I would like back for Karinchak... Herrera is a long term piece with Naylor... Woodford is a bullpen arm to mix in. McGreevey is a long term player and Yepez is someone who could help in 23 and beyond. Not exactly perfect, but a bit closer to my idea of a return for Karinchak...

Aka my ideal return would be... Someone position wise could contribute to bigs in 23. A solid RP back, a solid SP prospect (and if I add in a Tena) I'd like another solid player/prospect. Thoughts?

 

[CDAV45]

Cardinals & Guardians » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

@Gson @CDAV45

I'm curious what you think of that deal...

Cleveland gets
C Herrera
RHRP Woodford
SP McGreevey
1B Yepez

St. Louis gets
RP Karinchak
MIF Tena

I feel like it's closer to what I would like back for Karinchak... Herrera is a long term piece with Naylor... Woodford is a bullpen arm to mix in. McGreevey is a long term player and Yepez is someone who could help in 23 and beyond. Not exactly perfect, but a bit closer to my idea of a return for Karinchak...

Aka my ideal return would be... Someone position wise could contribute to bigs in 23. A solid RP back, a solid SP prospect (and if I add in a Tena) I'd like another solid player/prospect. Thoughts?

I'd do that yesterday, but I doubt the Cardinals would agree to it.

 

[Gson]

Cardinals & Guardians » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

@Gson @CDAV45

I'm curious what you think of that deal...

Cleveland gets
C Herrera
RHRP Woodford
SP McGreevey
1B Yepez

St. Louis gets
RP Karinchak
MIF Tena

I feel like it's closer to what I would like back for Karinchak... Herrera is a long term piece with Naylor... Woodford is a bullpen arm to mix in. McGreevey is a long term player and Yepez is someone who could help in 23 and beyond. Not exactly perfect, but a bit closer to my idea of a return for Karinchak...

Aka my ideal return would be... Someone position wise could contribute to bigs in 23. A solid RP back, a solid SP prospect (and if I add in a Tena) I'd like another solid player/prospect. Thoughts?

Ivan Herrera would add to the clearly questionable catching group the Guardians are going to spring training with.. He's had a hiccup in his offensive game.. and he doesn't have a thunderbolt in his throwing, but his technique reduces his time from catch to throw. He knows how to catch.. he has soft hands and quick feet and is tough as nails.. his offensive game has undergone some changes.. The last season and a half.. are changes that weren't for the better.. Before then, he was pretty impressive with the bat.. It may still be in there.. There is no question about him being able to be a ML catcher..

Woodford is a LOT like Plesac without the off field shenanigans..that is.. he can/should both relieve and start.. Woodford is absolutely not a strike out guy.. What he has is an ability to create poor contact with a low/mid-90's fastball that has late sink and a wee bit of arm side run.. He would be a fine candidate to learn to throw harder...

McGreevy's star is just now starting to rise.. If he were to be acquired, it would be about two or three years before he could maybe have the polish to rival Shane Bieber's rise.. Same kinf of pitcher.. same kind of stuff.. same development path??? IDK.. but would happily find out..

Yepez is known on these boards.. he can play in the corners (both OF and IF) but, he shouldn't ever be caught in the grass by the choice of Tito.. He doesn't even have the instincts in the OF as Spongebob.. He has a special bat.. I D K who he would be comp'd to.. perhaps Andrew Vaughn if he puts it together?

Overall.. this is a deal that could be / should be done from the Guardians perspective.. There are other guys I would suggest, but, as presented.. it's a good deal for the Guardians.. If the Cardinals wanted to add a lottery ticket.. that would be fine.. Tanner Burns? others..

 

[CATS44]

IMO St Louis wouldn't merely hang up if offered this package, they would slam the phone down.

 

[sportscoach]

IMO St Louis wouldn't merely hang up if offered this package, they would slam the phone down.

I made a deal for Karinchak that Cleveland would take... Cleveland isn't taking anything less for him...

 

[sportscoach]

@Criznit

You wanted a Plesac to Yankees deal...

@CDAV45 @Gson

I have a couple of ideas and no you guys aren't going to like them all, but give me counters so we can get a legit deal figured...

Idea one!

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Yankees get -
SP Plesac
SS Rosario

Guardians get
SP Hermann
SP Serna
SP Fitts
Util IKF
Cash/PTBNL

Why Cleveland does this? They get 3 arms to add to the mix... @Tondo what's your take on the Yankees arms and who you would choose?

Idea number two...

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Yankees get
SP Plesac
SS Rosario

Guardians get
Util Cabrera
SP Serna

Idea three

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Yankees get
SP Plesac
Cash/PTBNL

Guardians get
RP Abreu
SP Vazquez
SP Fitts
SP Hermann

Or something like that....

Yankees have a lot of SP type of prospects so I am not seeing a lot of position guys

@Tondo do you know any positional sleepers in the Yankees farm system?

 

[CDAV45]

@Criznit

You wanted a Plesac to Yankees deal...

@CDAV45 @Gson

I have a couple of ideas and no you guys aren't going to like them all, but give me counters so we can get a legit deal figured...

Idea one!

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Yankees get -
SP Plesac
SS Rosario

Guardians get
SP Hermann
SP Serna
SP Fitts
Util IKF
Cash/PTBNL

Why Cleveland does this? They get 3 arms to add to the mix... @Tondo what's your take on the Yankees arms and who you would choose?

Idea number two...

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Yankees get
SP Plesac
SS Rosario

Guardians get
Util Cabrera
SP Serna

Idea three

Guardians & Yankees » Baseball Trade Values

At baseballtradevalues.com, baseball fans can propose trades using accurate values of over 2,300 players as if they’re the GM of their favorite baseball team.

www.baseballtradevalues.com

Yankees get
SP Plesac
Cash/PTBNL

Guardians get
RP Abreu
SP Vazquez
SP Fitts
SP Hermann

Or something like that....

Yankees have a lot of SP type of prospects so I am not seeing a lot of guys

@Tondo do you know any positional sleepers in the Yankees farm system?

I don't really care about the return at this time. Sure, if we can get something good then by all means, but if they have an opportunity to move both Plesac and Rosario then they need to take advantage of that IMO.

 

[sportscoach]

I don't really care about the return at this time. Sure, if we can get something good then by all means, but if they have an opportunity to move both Plesac and Rosario then they need to take advantage of that IMO.

I need opinions so I can find the right mix in return lol

 

[CDAV45]

I need opinions so I can find the right mix in return lol

I don't know if dealing with the Yankees is the way to go then. Seems that their prospects come with a lot of unwarranted hype.

 

[macbdog]

IMO St Louis wouldn't merely hang up if offered this package, they would slam the phone down.

Ain't nobody breaking their $1000+ iPhone over a call from the Guardians.

Like Rosario, if the production a player gives, even if they stand to leave or implode in a year, is greater than the mediocre prospect you can get in return... You keep the player. For every Westbrook for Kluber deal you have 10 Asdrubal for Zach Walters. Other teams have the internet, they know James is a goofball who could either implode because he forgets where the strike zone is, gets completely flustered by the new pitching rules, gets caught again with suspicious fluids, or gets arrested for being a part of 1/6. They aren't going to blow the doors off the Gs to get him, they will expect a discount. Gs should just play out the string.