Amed Rosario - Play or Trade?

[Gson]

There's no more "SS is Gimenez's natural position" the same way Jose wasn't moving back to the middle infield after finding his spot at 3B.

Andres is a 2B. He's a gold glove winner and one of the best 2B in baseball. If possible, they'd prefer to keep him there.

When you ask "Is Amed worth the money" what you really need to be asking is if it makes sense to take that money away from a position of need. Let's say that in 2024, we need a starting pitcher. Would you rather be able to get that starting pitcher in free agency because you're paying Rocchio 720K a year, or would you rather have to go without that starting pitcher because you're paying Amed 12M a year while Rocchio rots away in the minors?

OF course Andres is a 2B.. Gold Glover and All Star.. no disagreement there..

The money argument remains weak..

Free Agency is the land of diminishing returns.. EZ PASS..

No one is "rotting"

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

OF course Andres is a 2B.. Gold Glover and All Star.. no disagreement there..

The money argument remains weak..

Free Agency is the land of diminishing returns.. EZ PASS..

No one is "rotting"

The money argument remains pertinent. Every dollar you allocate to Amed Rosario is a dollar you're taking away from elsewhere.

If you don't like the free agency example, then substitute any other example you please. Perhaps it's a young, talented player's contract extension. Heck, substitute a portion of what it would cost to keep Bieber around.

 

[N7RobBob]

Valid arguments to remove/replace Amed remain.. Nearly $ 8 MM in salary that might be spent, otherwise is a weak argument.. but, one, never the less.. The replacements are the shiny new bobble... filled with hope and promise.. Also a valid argument..

imho.. there are several reasons tied to Amed still being here.. the most important was the fact that he is and remains a great teammate. He is an example of the kind of work ethic that both succeeds and infects those he touches.. He generated loyalty when none was needed or asked for. Jose Ramirez was one of his guys.... Any other reason pales in comparison when discussing the value of a teammate.

Thoughts?

I might have missed the articles stating anything about his work ethic during the season or in the off-season.

We have also seen those players who are good teammates (Napoli) or friends (Uribe) jettisoned once they were deemed unworthy. Will they DFA/Trade him today, tomorrow, or this week? Probably not. He is on borrowed time.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Let's tone it down a bit.

Everybody agrees Amed has not played well so far. But he has a history of slow starts. The last two years he hit .179 and .211 in April. He ended those seasons hitting .282 and .283. He's 27 - right in his prime. He should finish this season right about where he was the last two years.

Or maybe better. The last couple of games I noticed he has been much more selective at the plate which is exactly what he needs in order to take the next step. Last night he had two walks, and the last one was on a very close 3-2 pitch. The night before he took two called third strikes. I've never seen that from him before. In the past when he gets two strikes on him his zone expands about 8" in all four directions. But the last two games he stopped chasing breaking balls in the dirt and is actually taking close pitches. He's even getting ahead in the count.

I don't know if this is by design or what, but maybe he is working on becoming a more disciplined hitter. His chase rate after 11 games is down over 3% from last year. His zone swing percentage is down almost 6%, so it's clear he's trying to be more selective. Last year he had the 9th highest O-swing percentage in baseball (> 400 PA's) and was 31st in outside the zone contact percentage. IOW, chasing bad pitches was killing him.

It will be interesting to see if he continues to be more selective, even if he gets called out a few more times, or if he reverts back to hacking at every ball he sees with two strikes. This is a contract year and free agent shortstops having been getting huge contracts. I sense he doesn't want another year of hitting .282 with no walks and no power. I could be wrong, but he may be trying to make a change for the better.

 

[petes999]

I might have missed the articles stating anything about his work ethic during the season or in the off-season.

We have also seen those players who are good teammates (Napoli) or friends (Uribe) jettisoned once they were deemed unworthy. Will they DFA/Trade him today, tomorrow, or this week? Probably not. He is on borrowed time.

I think people are referring to some of my comments about what he does in off-season vs in-season adjustments. No one has every doubted his hustle on the field. It may have been needed last year with 16 rookies. Yet, the baton can be easily passed to one of the 2nd year players who are hustling just as hard now.

My only comment is I do not want in-season adjustments in April that should have been done in Feb/March, if not Nov and Dec. Yes, there is always adjustments to be made in-season as no one is perfect. But, if you see something during last season, I want to see the same effort from Vets and I hear about from the rookies like Freeman or Brennan working with Mr V in November and December in Cleveland getting their swings where they need them to be for February to get needed reps in to hone their approach during ST before pressure really starts. And if he is doing the off-season work... may bad bu my only question is why is his April's all the same after 6 seasons????

 

[Gson]

The money argument remains pertinent. Every dollar you allocate to Amed Rosario is a dollar you're taking away from elsewhere.

If you don't like the free agency example, then substitute any other example you please. Perhaps it's a young, talented player's contract extension. Heck, substitute a portion of what it would cost to keep Bieber around.

Pertinent but weak..

No reason to add an example.. the one provided is adequate..

 

[buzzdog]

Geez.

This forum has had a consistent thread running thru multiple conversations for over a year that insisted that Amed was gonna be traded...good as gone...if not by the deadline, then in the off season.

You would have to be blind to miss it, esp if you were seriously looking for it.

The people who were saying this all along now want to deny it since he's still here, and they were wrong.

Thing is, I recall the most credible poster we've ever had here (Bimbo) being one of the few who held out the possibility that the team might keep him around.

Now, might he be gone by the trade deadline? Quite possibly. Or, he could heat up and end up sticking. It's baseball, damn near anything can happen. but no matter what, you can just throw out April performances from certain hitters, they aren't an indicator of how they'll do when it warms up.

 

[buzzdog]

Even Bimbo thought he would be traded... Cleveland just didn't get an offer they liked so they didn't move him...

Not exactly. Bimbo heavily qualified that and said they could very well end up keeping him, one of the few to say that.

 

[sportscoach]

Not exactly. Bimbo heavily qualified that and said they could very well end up keeping him, one of the few to say that.

Bimbo was mixed on it... He said, they had him available and personality thought he would be traded in the off season...

Since it didn't happen that essentially means, no one was willing to give Cleveland what they wanted for him. It was more of Cleveland was open to moving him, but they weren't willing to lower what they wanted for him to do so.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Even Bimbo thought he would be traded... Cleveland just didn't get an offer they liked so they didn't move him...

Plan changed when the offseason acquisitions were short-term.

Both topics of conversation, Bell and Rosario, will be fine. Long season and a lot of bad pitching coming up on the schedule.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Plan changed when the offseason acquisitions were short-term.

Both topics of conversation, Bell and Rosario, will be fine. Long season and a lot of bad pitching coming up on the schedule.

Yes, but no matter how competent of a gladiator you were in the past, if you put up a bad performance, many people will want blood... especially when the hot new gladiators can't compete in the Colosseum until you've stained the sand your own crimson hue.

 

[Urban]

Geez.

This forum has had a consistent thread running thru multiple conversations for over a year that insisted that Amed was gonna be traded...good as gone...if not by the deadline, then in the off season.

You would have to be blind to miss it, esp if you were seriously looking for it.

So then find me the posts of "lots of experts assuring" other posters that Amed would be traded in the offseason. People thought it could happen because there was logic behind it.

And while you're at it pull the receipts of pro-Rosario posters being told "they didn't know anything about baseball"

He's just completely exaggerating the hell out of the conjecture between keep/trade Amed talks. But that's pretty par for the course for this forum at times. One person disagreed with me often becomes "everyone was telling me I was an idiot for thinking this". It's tired and old.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

One person disagreed with me often becomes "everyone was telling me I was an idiot for thinking this". It's tired and old.

You're an idiot for thinking this.

Signed,
Everyone

 

[buzzdog]

So then find me the posts of "lots of experts assuring" other posters that Amed would be traded in the offseason. People thought it could happen because there was logic behind it.

And while you're at it pull the receipts of pro-Rosario posters being told "they didn't know anything about baseball"

He's just completely exaggerating the hell out of the conjecture between keep/trade Amed talks. But that's pretty par for the course for this forum at times. One person disagreed with me often becomes "everyone was telling me I was an idiot for thinking this". It's tired and old.

First off... I understand the likelihood of Rosario being moved at some point due to his contract status and the up and coming talent behind him in the organization. But I value Rosario as a talented player in his own right, unlike many people here.

Why don't you ask Rcristal how people responded to him supporting Rosario throughout the season? Search his comments and responses. He was a laughing stock amongst the majority here who consistently bash Rosario as a player and who spoke of Rosario being gone before this season as a done deal and as the accepted "conventional wisdom". You are in denial if you can't see this.

Go a few posts up from this and you will see the laughing emoji below my posts. That was pretty common response to anyone who stuck up for Rosario through all of last season. Face it, many posters here hate Rosario and can't wait to see him gone, and are condescending in how they respond to anyone who sticks up for Rosario as a player. It's been that way since we broke spring training last season and it only grew despite Rosario's contributions.

 

[LL3]

You're an idiot for thinking this.

Signed,
Everyone

Idiocy is bliss!