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Cleveland Guardians Offseason Discussion 2021-22

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Gson said:
However long Amed is with the Guardians.. you have to ask.. in what spot is Amed the least painful defensively and best offensively? ( assumes the DH is not a viable use)

When Amed was playing SS, he was hitting.. and hitting well.. so the offensive side of the question is easily answered..

The defensive side is a bit more complex.. It's a given that Andres Gimenez is a better defender at SS.. but is the team better with a non-hitting Amed and Gimenez at SS or is the team better with Amed AT SS while Gimenez mans 2B?..I submit that the team is better defensively, if Amed MUST BE ON THE FIELD, w/ Amed at SS and Gimenez at 2B..

...part of being a team..
Click to expand...
Yeah I've been wondering - I think the effort to have Amed learn 2B may just not be worth it, if he's not going to be with the team much longer. I'd rather he worry about hitting than learning a new position and it'd boost his trade value too.
 
Gson said:
However long Amed is with the Guardians.. you have to ask.. in what spot is Amed the least painful defensively and best offensively? ( assumes the DH is not a viable use)

When Amed was playing SS, he was hitting.. and hitting well.. so the offensive side of the question is easily answered..

The defensive side is a bit more complex.. It's a given that Andres Gimenez is a better defender at SS.. but is the team better with a non-hitting Amed and Gimenez at SS or is the team better with Amed AT SS while Gimenez mans 2B?..I submit that the team is better defensively, if Amed MUST BE ON THE FIELD, w/ Amed at SS and Gimenez at 2B..

...part of being a team..
Click to expand...
Hitting well? He was lucky and was still average. He's not part of the future and is blocking a boatload of players.
 
KluberSociety said:
Yeah I've been wondering - I think the effort to have Amed learn 2B may just not be worth it, if he's not going to be with the team much longer. I'd rather he worry about hitting than learning a new position and it'd boost his trade value too.
Click to expand...

I don’t see a huge effort to learn 2nd vs SS .. kind of like RF/LF (unlike SS & CF), just a bit different angles on balls. Biggest thing is pivot at 2nd on DPs. If a 5th year guy can’t figure that out, his trade value is maxed now (plus just 2 yrs left). I can argue teams know him as SS and 1/2 yr at 2nd (if our intent is to trade him) also add some versatility if playoff team has SS at deadline (like Baez trade).

And his best position last year hitting was DH/PH. Yet, we wouldn’t do that.

Guys, Ahmed is streaky hitter no matter where you play him. He hit .179, .307, .299, .250, .372, .235 per month. You can point to .179 in April in CF primarily as his worst. But, same people arguing to not play him at 2nd because of that also argue how unlucky his BaBIP was .192 in April in the 18 games (small sample) vs over .300 rest of season even w .250 and .235 months.

Biggest thing with Ahmed is what we said with Lindor ... high leverage situations, he hit .239 ... .228 in late and close games per baseballreference. This is what everyone pointed to with stress of playing in front of his NY home crowd before coming here.

If it is stress, maybe 2nd is easier than SS? Rather, avoid switching our younger kids back and forth who are here for 4-6 yrs and play better SS than a guy here for 2 yrs max.
 
Tondo said:
Hitting well? He was lucky and was still average. He's not part of the future and is blocking a boatload of players.
Click to expand...
Without the luck he still would've been about a 2 WAR guy. Which is certainly not terrible and would make him better than most of the team. Until the guys he's blocking show they're worth that much, then it's not blocking. It's an upgrade.

I think trading him come midseason can make a lot of sense, but the versatility he offers us really speaks for itself.

If enough of these higher minors MIF/OF guys come up and show they can produce, he's extremely expendable though. I agree in that sense.
 
Most of his WAR was because he lined up at SS. Gimenez would have gotten to 2 WAR at SS too. If they start ST with Rosario at SS, I'll be mad. Either play Gimenez there or trade him. I'd prefer to trade Amed and play Gimenez at SS (with Arias as plan B), Miller at 2B with Chang/Clement Util
 
petes999 said:
I don’t see a huge effort to learn 2nd vs SS .. kind of like RF/LF (unlike SS & CF), just a bit different angles on balls. Biggest thing is pivot at 2nd on DPs. If a 5th year guy can’t figure that out, his trade value is maxed now (plus just 2 yrs left). I can argue teams know him as SS and 1/2 yr at 2nd (if our intent is to trade him) also add some versatility if playoff team has SS at deadline (like Baez trade).

And his best position last year hitting was DH/PH. Yet, we wouldn’t do that.

Guys, Ahmed is streaky hitter no matter where you play him. He hit .179, .307, .299, .250, .372, .235 per month. You can point to .179 in April in CF primarily as his worst. But, same people arguing to not play him at 2nd because of that also argue how unlucky his BaBIP was .192 in April in the 18 games (small sample) vs over .300 rest of season even w .250 and .235 months.

Biggest thing with Ahmed is what we said with Lindor ... high leverage situations, he hit .239 ... .228 in late and close games per baseballreference. This is what everyone pointed to with stress of playing in front of his NY home crowd before coming here.

If it is stress, maybe 2nd is easier than SS? Rather, avoid switching our younger kids back and forth who are here for 4-6 yrs and play better SS than a guy here for 2 yrs max.
Click to expand...
I generally agree but Gimenez is very good at 2B and Arias is likely the next MIF callup, who can take over Amed's spot.

Tondo said:
Most of his WAR was because he lined up at SS. Gimenez would have gotten to 2 WAR at SS too
Click to expand...
And because he did an alright job at it. Do you want to run with Gimenez at SS and Chang or someone else at 2B?
 
Amed is incredibly overrated because he BABIPed his way to several multi hit games. He's basically an INF version of Jordan Luplow, a luxury platoon bat that crushes LHP, but shouldn't even start vs RHP, let alone bat 2nd. I'd trade him to the Angels for Taylor Ward in a heartbeat.

On a strong contender, Amed would be a platoon MIF/OF bench Util starting and PH vs LHP
 
I think we should plan on lining up Gimenez "everyday" at SS - won't be platooned against lefties this time around and Amed at 2nd. If Amed is gone or in the OF, Miller and Chang duke it out for regular playing time at 2nd - the loser becomes the utility guy/platoon buddy for Bradley. That means Chang plays 1st and Miller at 2nd when Bobby sits, IMO.
 
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Gimenez looks beautiful in the field.
Rosario prefers to throw from the side.
It's a no-brainer for me.
 
A few thoughts...

Renfroe is a type of player...the kind you look for as a one year bridge to Valera. The kind you sign as a FA, not trade assets for. And you want a lot more than a .297 career OBP.

Pham, McCutchen, etc.

Renfroe is not better than a Zimmer/Mercado platoon, and thats a problem, because we are looking for better than what we have, and in the form of a single player.

**********

We keep talking about moving Amed, but the FO already told him to concentrate on SS. Its past time that somebody decides to stop screwing him around and letting his do his thing.

When they did that last season, Amed responded by having a terrific second half. His second half slash line was nearly the same as his career away splits in the NL...when he wasnt playing in the mausoleum known as Citi Field.

******

We don't need more bats to drive in runs, we need more bats that get on base. You can't drive in runs when there isn't anybody on base. What we need is more opportunity to drive in runs.

We finished LAST in the AL in plate appearances...13th in OBP....12th in BA....12th in BBs. We finished 7th in HRs....7th in SLG. Which of those rankings is not a problem?

Our team OPS was .303. It's ridiculous that nobody seemingly wants to address the problem, but does want to address the non problem.

The highest team OPS in the AL was .339.

Every named I've mentioned was about at that figure or much higher for their careers....many in the .360+ range.

But still we talk power power power, and designate those who manage to get on base as merely slap hitters. I want more of those slap hitters, if thats what you want to call them.
 
CATS44 said:
A few thoughts...

Renfroe is a type of player...the kind you look for as a one year bridge to Valera. The kind you sign as a FA, not trade assets for. And you want a lot more than a .297 career OBP.

Pham, McCutchen, etc.

Renfroe is not better than a Zimmer/Mercado platoon, and thats a problem, because we are looking for better than what we have, and in the form of a single player.

**********

We keep talking about moving Amed, but the FO already told him to concentrate on SS. Its past time that somebody decides to stop screwing him around and letting his do his thing.

When they did that last season, Amed responded by having a terrific second half. His second half slash line was nearly the same as his career away splits in the NL...when he wasnt playing in the mausoleum known as Citi Field.

******

We don't need more bats to drive in runs, we need more bats that get on base. You can't drive in runs when there isn't anybody on base. What we need is more opportunity to drive in runs.

We finished LAST in the AL in plate appearances...13th in OBP....12th in BA....12th in BBs. We finished 7th in HRs....7th in SLG. Which of those rankings is not a problem?

Our team OPS was .303. It's ridiculous that nobody seemingly wants to address the problem, but does want to address the non problem.

The highest team OPS in the AL was .339.

Every named I've mentioned was about at that figure or much higher for their careers....many in the .360+ range.

But still we talk power power power, and designate those who manage to get on base as merely slap hitters. I want more of those slap hitters, if thats what you want to call them.
Click to expand...

I know you meant OBA when you said OPS, and I agree that this is a major weakness of this lineup that needs to be addressed. It is probably the best argument for not dealing Jose because without him the OBA sinks below .300.
 
CATS44 said:
A few thoughts...

Renfroe is a type of player...the kind you look for as a one year bridge to Valera. The kind you sign as a FA, not trade assets for. And you want a lot more than a .297 career OBP.

Pham, McCutchen, etc.

Renfroe is not better than a Zimmer/Mercado platoon, and thats a problem, because we are looking for better than what we have, and in the form of a single player.

**********

We keep talking about moving Amed, but the FO already told him to concentrate on SS. Its past time that somebody decides to stop screwing him around and letting his do his thing.

When they did that last season, Amed responded by having a terrific second half. His second half slash line was nearly the same as his career away splits in the NL...when he wasnt playing in the mausoleum known as Citi Field.

******

We don't need more bats to drive in runs, we need more bats that get on base. You can't drive in runs when there isn't anybody on base. What we need is more opportunity to drive in runs.

We finished LAST in the AL in plate appearances...13th in OBP....12th in BA....12th in BBs. We finished 7th in HRs....7th in SLG. Which of those rankings is not a problem?

Our team OPS was .303. It's ridiculous that nobody seemingly wants to address the problem, but does want to address the non problem.

The highest team OPS in the AL was .339.

Every named I've mentioned was about at that figure or much higher for their careers....many in the .360+ range.

But still we talk power power power, and designate those who manage to get on base as merely slap hitters. I want more of those slap hitters, if thats what you want to call them.
Click to expand...
It’s interesting how you extol Rosario’s hitting ability and then say a big issue in the lineup is the terrible team OBP (I agree that this is a huge issue). Rosario has a career OBP of .307, which is awful.
 
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