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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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We can't go into the season with only 17 pitchers on the 40 man, one of which is unavailable. We used 24 pitchers last year and 30 in 2019.

We also need to add a vet catcher to the 40 man.

We also have only 13 position players with any MLB experience. One, Naylor, is unlikely to be ready until mid season. Three...Miller, Clement, and Bradley...have minimal experience. Three more...Zimmer, Mercado, and Chang...are 26th man types.

We can't contend with three/four true position rookies on the opening day roster...but thats where we will stand, if we cut a bunch of the vets loose to make room for 40 man additions.

Six of our semi experienced players...Bradley, Clement, Miller, Zimmer, Mercado, and Chang...have little or no trade value.

Not even considering needing to upgrade several positions, the roster situation dictates a major trade to add veteran players and relieve some roster pressure....to add a catcher...and to add three pitchers to the 40 man.

Although perhaps not by opening day, we need to create 40 man openings for the inevitable additions a 162 game season demands.

Two moves seem easy...Vargas and Naylor to the 60 day IL....and its easy to say that we can DFA guys like Clement, Zimmer, and Mercado. But who takes their places on the active roster, true rookies?

Do we really think we can contend with Lavastida, Palacios, Kwan, and Arias on the opening day roster? Do we really think a pen with five or six inexperienced relievers can carry this team? Do we really want to put off the development of multiple SP prospects by putting them in the pen to be bridges between the rotation and Clase?

A major multiple for one trade is almost inevitable, and it won't be multiple spare parts.

**************

My FA targets, if we don't fill our holes thru major trades, are Pham and McCutchen. Both RH corner OFs. And a couple NRI relievers. I see no FA catcher better than what we have.

**********

I'm not sure I expect it to happen, but IMO the two non 40 man prospects most likely to see Cleveland this year are Mikolajchak and Battenfield.

I've seen write ups that compare Mikolajchak to Clase and Karinchak. By mid season, we might have the most fearsome pen in baseball with Clase, Karinchak, Mikolajchak, Hentges, Gose, and Sandlin...or it could be a total bust in front of Clase. And thats why we should hedge our bets with an experienced vet or two.

Battenfield is a big kid, as big as Cookie. A big kid with a new wipe out cutter and immaculate control. From Espino on up, Battenfield has the best K/BB rate and best BB% of any of our SP prospects.

I like big pitchers...a lot more than I like smaller ones. And I like big pitchers with immaculate control. There aren't many around. I like big pitchers, because everything else being equal, they can carry a bigger load and eat more innings. On top of that, Battenfield is efficient, averaging under 15 pitches per inning, which is better than any starter we had in Cleveland last year. Battenfield has the look of a 200+ IP starter down the road.
 
You continue to talk about Morgan as if he is what he is, that's why I said you talk about him like a 30yo journeyman. Others dictate his fate etc.
LS Allen can improve this that...why can't Morgan improve?, as he's actually shown to adapt and improve much more in a shorter period of time than Allen or Hentges did over years.
It's called talent Tondo and Morgan isn't overly blessed in this area when compared to most of his counterparts. This conversation is silly. If you think Eli Morgan is going to develop into a #3 SP in MLB then God bless you. I don't think there's a chance of that at all. He could become a good #5 SP because he's not even that yet.
 
It's called talent Tondo and Morgan isn't overly blessed in this area when compared to most of his counterparts. This conversation is silly. If you think Eli Morgan is going to develop into a #3 SP in MLB then God bless you. I don't think there's a chance of that at all. He could become a good #5 SP because he's not even that yet.
Well, finally you've come out of the woodwork and admit that you don't see him as a viable 5th starter and I never said he's #3.
But fun fact, Morgan's K/BB was 44th among 141 SP with 80+ IP (by simple math, that amount of IP is reserved for any teams top 4 plus the best 5th SP, so he already cleared that mark), this put him right behind T. Bauer. His WHIP of 1.25 was also middle of the pack (that already makes two #3 SP stats, lol).
Morgan has been denied talent as long as he's pitched. He was dominant in college, but fell to round 8. He performed very good in the minors, yet got snubbed by rankings and fans alike. He leapfrogs multiple other pitching prospects in the org eating innings while basically still rehabbing, and there we have the cdavs of the baseball world shitting on him again.

For a guy that supposedly has no talent (how can you even say that about a guy with a legit plus plus ML pitch?), he seems to at least have the talent to make those critics look stupid again and again and again....looking forward for more of this
 
Also @CATS44 @Gson @CDAV45

Once things get back to being open, who are your free agent targets?...

First off I still think my first target would be LHP Andrew Chafin...

Next it would be bringing in the Shaw, Parker's of the world. Tomlin, Kintzler, Joe Smith, Andrew Miller etc... best talent possible for minor league deal with invites to the major league club and opt outs.. Duffy is another guy I think I would get into camp and have incentives, mid season opt out and whatnot. I want to bring in as many good veterans as possible who have good leadership abilities. We are a really young team so adding experience in my mind is a must...

Next on the docket... catchers... In free agency not much there, but bringing in someone like Greiner i think is necessary at the end of the day...

Next on my list of course is spending Blitzer's money on Bryant... if that does work then Suzuki... if that doesn't work then realistically...I am thinking Andrew McCutchen... or Michael Conforto to man our LF... plus then bring in a guy like Locastro on a minor league deal (he's likely out until July/Aug). Also maybe see if we can get a Marwin Gonzalez on a very cheap MLB contract or a minor league deal with opt outs. I know we have utility guys, bringing in a veteran to compete with them is something I would like to do personally.
I'd prioritize getting Parker back, but that shouldn't be difficult. After that I don't really have any FA targets because I don't think any obvious difference makers will fall into Cleveland's lap. Bryant fits our needs precisely, but what are the chances that Cleveland offers him the best contract? Same for Rizzo.

I'd give the 3 ATL FA a look with the focus being on Soler. I'm not opposed to bringing Eddie back either. Pederson is more of a platoon player, but I wouldn't cry the blues if he were signed.

My desired FA OFer has already been signed by the f'ing Marlins of all teams.
 
Well, finally you've come out of the woodwork and admit that you don't see him as a viable 5th starter and I never said he's #3.
But fun fact, Morgan's K/BB was 44th among 141 SP with 80+ IP (by simple math, that amount of IP is reserved for any teams top 4 plus the best 5th SP, so he already cleared that mark), this put him right behind T. Bauer. His WHIP of 1.25 was also middle of the pack (that already makes two #3 SP stats, lol).
Morgan has been denied talent as long as he's pitched. He was dominant in college, but fell to round 8. He performed very good in the minors, yet got snubbed by rankings and fans alike. He leapfrogs multiple other pitching prospects in the org eating innings while basically still rehabbing, and there we have the cdavs of the baseball world shitting on him again.

For a guy that supposedly has no talent (how can you even say that about a guy with a legit plus plus ML pitch?), he seems to at least have the talent to make those critics look stupid again and again and again....looking forward for more of this
Quote where I said he wasn't a "viable 5th starter". I'll wait.

Meanwhile, I'm going to quote myself here and will continue to do so until it sinks in. "He's the quintessential #5 SP or long man."

Clearly you have a "thing" for Eli. I'm cool with that because there are players that I believe have more potential as well. The problem I have with your BS is your attempts to misrepresent my thoughts. I have no qualms that you think Eli Morgan is so much more waiting to happen even if I don't share those sentiments.

Edited to apologize. It was coach that said that Morgan "was almost a 3rd starter".
 
Wow quite the passionate discourse surrounding Eli Morgan... We must be bored.

I have never been a super fan, and his arsenal (on paper) looks like it would get smacked around by the most of the league.. And he does when he throws a slider or misses with his fastball.

So with that said...

He is succeeding and perhaps will even excel. He is a prototypical "overachiever" IMO and still has the potential to add another wrinkle to his makeup..

He will always be close to the edge. If he continues to command his fastball extremely well his changeup will be one of the best in the league. Once he starts missing with the fastball he becomes volatile real quick and his breaking stuff is very very average. I think it was a game against the Astros where they were sitting on his breaking stuff, forcing Eli to throw strikes and they got him. I think the leagues top hitters will get the best of him in the long run.

He maybe one of those rare ones, the ones that "rise to the occasion" or he may end up very very average. Hard to say, but he is very good at maximizing his stuff and as long as he is able to keep doing that, he is a SP on most teams. Is he a 3 or a 5? I'll say 4 with 3 to 5ish tendencies...

If he suddenly gets a plus breaking pitch - look out.... And I'll say it again - Eli - go talk to Shane about that knuckle-curve he throws.
 
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Wow quite the passionate discourse surround Eli Morgan... We must be bored.

I have never been a super fan, and his arsenal (on paper) looks like it would get smacked around by the most of the league.. And he does when he throws a slider or misses with his fastball.

So with that said...

He is succeeding and perhaps will even excel. He is a prototypical "overachiever" IMO and still has the potential to add another wrinkle to his makeup..

He will always be close to the edge. If he continues to command his fastball extremely well his changeup will be one of the best in the league. Once he starts missing with the fastball he becomes volatile real quick and his breaking stuff is very very average. I think it was a game against the Astros where they were sitting on his breaking stuff, forcing Eli to throw strikes and they got him. I think the leagues top hitters will get the best of him in the long run.

He maybe one of those rare ones, the ones that "rise to the occasion" or he may end up very very average. Hard to say, but he is very good at maximizing his stuff and as long as he is able to keep doing that, he is a SP on most teams. Is he a 3 or a 5? I'll say 4 with 3 to 5ish tendencies...

If he suddenly gets a plus breaking pitch - look out.... And I'll say it again - Eli - go talk to Shane about that knuckle-curve he throws.
Pretty fair assessment IMO, but I'd prefer to see him develop a good cutter. The problem with Eli appears to be that he doesn't spin the ball well so developing a better breaking ball or cutter might be a challenge.

I'm not passionate about Eli Morgan. I am passionate when someone tries to twist my words.
 
He could become a good #5 SP because he's not even that yet.
I asked you that question yesterday or 2 days ago and you danced around the hat, because of fear of looking stupid, hedging left and right. Yeah, he "could" become a good #5, so could Justin Garza or me or you or any SP prospect in A Ball.
But then you finally said what we all know you're thinking on Morgan, that he's not even that yet (against all evidence that he in fact very much was in 2021)and since you don't give him any leash to improve (but that LS Allen guy, right?), that pretty much means what you refuse to say out loud: he's not a #5 for you (now) and probably won't ever be one you'd accept. Noted.

But hey, you said "could", cool (that's your answer, right?)
 
Aside from named Free Agents.. which will be continued..

...there are no Blitzer buck$$... at least.. not yet.. perhaps in the run up to the start of the 2023 season we'll see some influence of the new minority owner.. but..

That was a joke /sarcasm since we weren't going to sign those players lol
 
Well, finally you've come out of the woodwork and admit that you don't see him as a viable 5th starter and I never said he's #3.
But fun fact, Morgan's K/BB was 44th among 141 SP with 80+ IP (by simple math, that amount of IP is reserved for any teams top 4 plus the best 5th SP, so he already cleared that mark), this put him right behind T. Bauer. His WHIP of 1.25 was also middle of the pack (that already makes two #3 SP stats, lol).
Morgan has been denied talent as long as he's pitched. He was dominant in college, but fell to round 8. He performed very good in the minors, yet got snubbed by rankings and fans alike. He leapfrogs multiple other pitching prospects in the org eating innings while basically still rehabbing, and there we have the cdavs of the baseball world shitting on him again.

For a guy that supposedly has no talent (how can you even say that about a guy with a legit plus plus ML pitch?), he seems to at least have the talent to make those critics look stupid again and again and again....looking forward for more of thisSJpi;
Shouldn't put myself in the middle of this argument but I was going to point out Morgan's sub-100 t/sOPS+ the other day in his last 2 months. He seemed to be settling down into a groove and as you pointed out some numbers looked good in comparison to other pitchers.

Yet, I try to hold my judgement for a full-year plus some stats as pitchers and hitters adapt to each other. I can also point out the Tomlin had a 1.247 WHIP in year 1 and 1.077 in year 2. He also had a SO/K in year 1 of 2.26 compared to 3.68 for Morgan but was up to 4.23 SO/K in year 2. At that rate, he was on track to become an ACE (sarcasm) but sometimes, the eyes are more reliable than stats (this coming from someone who liked stats in school). As the saying goes, figures lie and liars figure.

It will be interesting to see what he does but for me, I still see him as a #4/#5 starter for a middle of road team which isn't a slight (as he made the show). I wouldn't normally have a problem with him being our #5 like Tomlin was as he can put up decent numbers. In Aug and Sept (taking out a disastrous May start), BAA .238 and ERA around 4.2 (but K/W ratio dipped to 2.8). And the competition was not just bottom feeders who brought up scrubs after trade deadline to pad his numbers (Tor, Detx2, Oak, Min, Tex x2, CHWS, NYY, BOSx2, Mil)

However, for our team, he is just going to be the bottom of rotation starter who is going to ultimately get bumped as the new shinny prospect is ready for an extended look see. Unless he turns into a Maddox or Glavin, he is not going to survive the desire to find next gem when we may have our next TOR starter waiting for some time to shine. Can he stay in our rotation and become more of a placeholder without a shiny pedigree? Bieber found a way (with some extra mph on FB) ... so anything can happen. But, with a 90.5 mph average on his 4-seamer last year and being 26 in May, he needs to focus on his pinpoint control and deception to survive. However, in 2023/24 when we want someone with a little extra umph to come in from the bullpen in playoffs (as we go with just 3/4 starters in playoffs like I think Clevinger did in 2016 for us), Morgan is not that guy.

Are we going to really hold back the following prospects
2022 - This year, I see him as the main #6 but Morris may get a few starts or relief appearances and we have Myers
2023 - Battenfield, Pilkington and Allen Jr
2024 - Espino, Curry, Gaddis, Burns, Cantillo, Hankins
2025 - Wolf, Torres, Williams, Mace, Nikhazy

That's 16 relatively high prospects (even leaving out Vargas - bullpen future and Hickman (Morgan lite). 8 will flame out or be injured ... few more may not beat out Morgan ... But, will we be willing to have a 4+ ERA, soft tossing righty when we have a few high pedigree, mid-high 90 fastballers. As I said, a few/many of our pitchers will be moved to the pen, after they flame out as starters. Yet, you always give them a look because their potential upside is worth a few bad starts to make sure. And, this also assumes that we don't draft or trade for another pitcher when we deal someone like Rosario at a trade deadline.

I feel sorry for him but look how many pitchers bit the dust this 40 man time around (Mejia, Garza - resigned, Moss, ....). Next time, we have to add Battenfield, Hankins, Torres and Miko/Ramirez. I can see Myers, Morgan, Allen Sr and Hentges on the block to be cut for the next shinny prospect. Who knows by July, he can gets us the next Straw in a deal. This is his year to show something, I just wouldn't bet on him being here in 2 years.
 
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I asked you that question yesterday or 2 days ago and you danced around the hat, because of fear of looking stupid, hedging left and right. Yeah, he "could" become a good #5, so could Justin Garza or me or you or any SP prospect in A Ball.
But then you finally said what we all know you're thinking on Morgan, that he's not even that yet (against all evidence that he in fact very much was in 2021)and since you don't give him any leash to improve (but that LS Allen guy, right?), that pretty much means what you refuse to say out loud: he's not a #5 for you (now) and probably won't ever be one you'd accept. Noted.

But hey, you said "could", cool (that's your answer, right?)
I didn't dance around shit and my opinion of Eli hasn't changed one bit. I also give/gave him room to improve which would still make him a #5 for this team. Read where I quoted myself until you comprehend it. I don't know what else to tell you and I'm not quite sure why you're being such a dick about it. Yes, he could be a good #5 which is why I said that I would be perfectly fine trading one of Plesac or Civale for a big corner OF bat and allowing Eli to join the rotation. He's not a long term starter for this organization in my view though. There's just too much talent already in the rotation and bubbling up from the minors. We can't trade Eli for that big bat because he isn't that valuable. If you don't like that I don't really give a fuck.
 
Shouldn't put myself in the middle of this argument but I was going to point out Morgan's sub-100 t/sOPS+ the other day in his last 2 months. He seemed to be settling down into a groove and as you pointed out some numbers looked good in comparison to other pitchers.

Yet, I try to hold my judgement for a full-year plus some stats as pitchers and hitters adapt to each other. I can also point out the Tomlin had a 1.247 WHIP in year 1 and 1.077 in year 2. He also had a SO/K in year 1 of 2.26 compared to 3.68 for Morgan but was up to 4.23 SO/K in year 2. At that rate, he was on track to become an ACE (sarcasm) but sometimes, the eyes are more reliable than stats (this coming from someone who liked stats in school). As the saying goes, figures lie and liars figure.

It will be interesting to see what he does but for me, I still see him as a #4/#5 starter for a middle of road team which isn't a slight (as he made the show). I wouldn't normally have a problem with him being our #5 like Tomlin was as he can put up decent numbers. In Aug and Sept (taking out a disastrous May start), BAA .238 and ERA around 4.2 (but K/W ratio dipped to 2.8). And the competition was not just bottom feeders who brought up scrubs after trade deadline to pad his numbers (Tor, Detx2, Oak, Min, Tex x2, CHWS, NYY, BOSx2, Mil)

However, for our team, he is just going to be the bottom of rotation starter who is going to ultimately get bumped as the new shinny prospect is ready for an extended look see. Unless he turns into a Maddox or Glavin, he is not going to survive the desire to find next gem when we may have our next TOR starter waiting for some time to shine. Can he stay in our rotation and become more of a placeholder without a shiny pedigree? Bieber found a way (with some extra mph on FB) ... so anything can happen. But, with a 90.5 mph average on his 4-seamer last year and being 26 in May, he needs to focus on his pinpoint control and deception to survive. However, in 2023/24 when we want someone with a little extra umph to come in from the bullpen in playoffs (as we go with just 3/4 starters in playoffs like I think Clevinger did in 2016 for us), Morgan is not that guy.

Are we going to really hold back the following prospects
2022 - This year, I see him as the main #6 but Morris may get a few starts or relief appearances and we have Myers
2023 - Battenfield, Pilkington and Allen Jr
2024 - Espino, Curry, Gaddis, Burns, Cantillo, Hankins
2025 - Wolf, Torres, Williams, Mace, Nikhazy

That's 16 relatively high prospects (even leaving out Vargas - bullpen future and Hickman (Morgan lite). 8 will flame out or be injured ... few more may not beat out Morgan ... But, will we be willing to have a 4+ ERA, soft tossing righty when we have a few high pedigree, mid-high 90 fastballers. As I said, a few/many of our pitchers will be moved to the pen, after they flame out as starters. Yet, you always give them a look because their potential upside is worth a few bad starts to make sure. And, this also assumes that we don't draft or trade for another pitcher when we deal someone like Rosario at a trade deadline.

I feel sorry for him but look how many pitchers bit the dust this 40 man time around (Mejia, Garza - resigned, Moss, ....). Next time, we have to add Battenfield, Hankins, Torres and Miko/Ramirez. I can see Myers, Morgan, Allen Sr and Hentges on the block to be cut for the next shinny prospect. Who knows by July, he can gets us the next Straw in a deal. This is his year to show something, I just wouldn't bet on him being here in 2 years.
You don't have to put yourself in the middle of it. You can take it over because I'm not wasting anymore time with it. It's all yours brother! Your explanation fits exactly how I feel about Eli, but you did a better job going into detail.

I have no hate or disdain for Eli Morgan and I wish he were more than what you and I believe he is. I would be pleasantly surprised.
 
This is nearly verbatim the conversation we have had over the last three or four winters, only substituting Morgan for Plutko.

Lots of assurances that Plutko was a legit #5...until he couldn't even make the Baltimore rotation.

Lets look at the numbers.

72 AL pitchers put up at least 80 IP last year. Since fifteen teams began with five starters, technically all 72 are at least #5s....but only technically. Many, like Morgan and Plutko before him, only got to pitch, because others got hurt.

Out of those 72, Morgan ranked:

64th in fWAR
60th in ERA
61st in FIP
66th in xFIP

Overall, he had an ERA+ of 82.

In 2019, the last full season, there were 60 AL pitchers who accrued at last 80 IP.

Plutko ranked:

55th in fWAR
40th in ERA
53rd in FIP
57th in xFIP

He had an ERA+ of 92.

Somebody show me the difference.

Morgan 'won' a spot in the rotation by default. Everybody forgets that Allen had early season arm problems, and the only candidate with even miniscule time in AAA before last season was Morgan. Mejia hadn't even been to AA.

I would dispute that Morgan has passed anybody in our system. He just happened to be the next man in line with the most experience...and he was the oldest.

If anybody thinks that Morgan has passed any of Morris, Espino, and Allen Jr in the future pecking order, raise their hand. Throw in the three newcomers...Pilkington, Myers, and Battenfield.

This is always the time of year we have raging debates over fringe players....26th bench players and #8 pitchers. The lockout has made things worse...lol.
 

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