And I wasn't replying to you, my friend.
I was replying to the general conversation that denigrated Straw and the type of impact his type of player has on a baseball game and season.
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I was replying to the general conversation that denigrated Straw and the type of impact his type of player has on a baseball game and season.
Gson
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Oh.. and I forgot to mention..none of these guys require a 40 man roster spot in 2022 unless they're promoted to the parent club..
sportscoach
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We need a veteran LHP...
Gson
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We need LHP and LHRP that can get outs.. veterans AND youngsters.. BOTH..
What we need most when it comes to pitching is stability. We already have the talent.
Stability in the rotation, along with a dependable closer, allows everybody else to settle into roles.
We have the closer. If they can stay reasonably healthy, we have the rotation.
Basically, we need to cover between two and three innings in closer games. We already have the arms to do that.
The problem with the pen is too many innings to cover.
Our pen ranks 3rd in the league in ERA.
6th in FIP.
3rd in K/9
5th in fewest IP.
That last one doesn't sound too bad, but the four with fewer IP are...
Oakland
Chicago
Houston
Toronto
Right behind us is NY, and they are paying their pen more than we are paying our entire team.
The only pen with significantly more IP that is performing as well as ours is Seattle.
I dont count Tampa, because their pitching usage is so different than everybody else.
********
Our team is traditionally built around a rotation that puts up a lot of IP and a closer...with at least two good relievers in between.
In 2015 our pen ranked second in ERA and second in fewest IP.
2016...2nd...5th
2017...1st....1st
2018...13th...1st (that was a bad pen)
2019...3rd....1st
2020...3rd....1st
2021...3rd....5th
Consider this...
Our pen has already thrown more innings than it has in an entire season since 2014...and on pace to throw more than it has in team history.
Fix the rotation, and the pen will be fine.
Stability in the rotation, along with a dependable closer, allows everybody else to settle into roles.
We have the closer. If they can stay reasonably healthy, we have the rotation.
Basically, we need to cover between two and three innings in closer games. We already have the arms to do that.
The problem with the pen is too many innings to cover.
Our pen ranks 3rd in the league in ERA.
6th in FIP.
3rd in K/9
5th in fewest IP.
That last one doesn't sound too bad, but the four with fewer IP are...
Oakland
Chicago
Houston
Toronto
Right behind us is NY, and they are paying their pen more than we are paying our entire team.
The only pen with significantly more IP that is performing as well as ours is Seattle.
I dont count Tampa, because their pitching usage is so different than everybody else.
********
Our team is traditionally built around a rotation that puts up a lot of IP and a closer...with at least two good relievers in between.
In 2015 our pen ranked second in ERA and second in fewest IP.
2016...2nd...5th
2017...1st....1st
2018...13th...1st (that was a bad pen)
2019...3rd....1st
2020...3rd....1st
2021...3rd....5th
Consider this...
Our pen has already thrown more innings than it has in an entire season since 2014...and on pace to throw more than it has in team history.
Fix the rotation, and the pen will be fine.
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For fun, I went back to see what happened to the pen in 2018.
Interesting and flukish.
Cody Allen fell off a cliff. His career was over after the next year.
Shaw had moved on.
Miller was hurt, and was never the same.
Otero was done and never played again.
Neil Ramirez never pitched again.
Tyler Olson never pitched again.
McAllister fell off a cliff and never pitched again.
Goody, who everybody was excited about after an excellent 2017, was horrid.
Belisle fell off a cliff and never pitched again.
Alexis Ogando fell off a cliff and never pitched again.
Our only good reliever was Ollie Perez, who was strictly a LOOGY.
We brought in Hand and Cimber at the deadline.
Going into the season, that looked like an elite pen, even with the loss of Shaw.
In 2017...
Allens ERA was 2.94
Millers was 1.44
McAllister was 2.61
Goody was 2.80
Belisles was 4.03.
Ogandos was 3.94
Ya just never can tell.
Interesting and flukish.
Cody Allen fell off a cliff. His career was over after the next year.
Shaw had moved on.
Miller was hurt, and was never the same.
Otero was done and never played again.
Neil Ramirez never pitched again.
Tyler Olson never pitched again.
McAllister fell off a cliff and never pitched again.
Goody, who everybody was excited about after an excellent 2017, was horrid.
Belisle fell off a cliff and never pitched again.
Alexis Ogando fell off a cliff and never pitched again.
Our only good reliever was Ollie Perez, who was strictly a LOOGY.
We brought in Hand and Cimber at the deadline.
Going into the season, that looked like an elite pen, even with the loss of Shaw.
In 2017...
Allens ERA was 2.94
Millers was 1.44
McAllister was 2.61
Goody was 2.80
Belisles was 4.03.
Ogandos was 3.94
Ya just never can tell.
DCTribefan
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Awaybackgone.com writer view on which 5 players will not return in 2022. Shaw, Perez, Johnson, Miller, Chang.
awaybackgone.com
Cleveland Indians: 5 players whose futures are doomed with Cleveland
The Cleveland Indians have tried a handful of prospects this year and the results should spell the end of these five players tenure with the club.
awaybackgone.com
CDAV45
Small ball is for pussies!
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Actually, fans would rather see nothing else but home runs. It's the most exciting play in baseball to most casual fans. Your ideals are not in the majority CATS, and I'm not saying you're wrong either. It's just not the most popular line of thought.
Watching guys run the bases is fucking boring even though it is extremely useful for the few that are good at it.
This team has been winning since Tito showed up and the fans aren't showing up bud. You are dead wrong about that.
Last night's game was fun to watch. A well pitched, good defended game that our beloved Indians/Guardians won by hitting 3 HR.
CDAV45
Small ball is for pussies!
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Absolutely agree with everything you say here. I'd take it a step further and suggest that there is about to be more talent than available spots on the roster, which is a good thing. Now, I wouldn't be upset at all if the picked up a good, proven LHRP, but outside of that there really isn't a single pitching need.
sportscoach
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Awaybackgone.com writer view on which 5 players will not return in 2022. Shaw, Perez, Johnson, Miller, Chang.
Cleveland Indians: 5 players whose futures are doomed with Cleveland
The Cleveland Indians have tried a handful of prospects this year and the results should spell the end of these five players tenure with the club.
The next article said HRam needs to be apart of the future... Not sure I agree with that one...
I am thinking Shaw is a minor league invite for 22, while Perez I think is back for 22, at a different price... One of Johnson and Zimmer is likely gone (we have a bunch of lefties then a guy like Kwan, who bats from the left side) may need protected.. and I cannot disagree with Chang or Miller, but in no way is Miller going to be gone since he has options left..
All things are relative.
Attendance averaged about 1.5 mil for the four years thru 2016 when we got to the series. It jumped 33% in 2017, the year after the series....and it averaged about 1.8 mil until Covid hit.
Winning does matter.
*********
Awaygoneback is awaygonedaft if he really thinks the Miller will be gone ahead of Harold, Parker, and Clement.
*********
If the only things fans wanted to see was homeruns, pro slow pitch softball would have made Ted Stepian a billionaire.
Its the same with breakaway dunks in basketball. It's the equivalent of a home run. But if that's all fans wanted, the NBA would just have a dunking league.
Fans come to see the rebound and outlet pass, the cross court pass to the open man, the fadeaway jumper from the corner, the blocked shot.
Fans don't want to see actionless baseball, which is what we have today.
They want action, excitement, movement.
A Franmil bomb is fun to watch, but it lasts about five seconds of ball flight as everybody on defense watches and the only movement id Franmil trotting.
Watching somebody score from first on a double, with the outfielder chasing the ball, throwing to a cutoff man, and then the relay to the plate...and the runner sliding in in a cloud of dust..while everybody waits breathlessly for the ump to give a sign....
Thats action, excitement, movement.
Attendance averaged about 1.5 mil for the four years thru 2016 when we got to the series. It jumped 33% in 2017, the year after the series....and it averaged about 1.8 mil until Covid hit.
Winning does matter.
*********
Awaygoneback is awaygonedaft if he really thinks the Miller will be gone ahead of Harold, Parker, and Clement.
*********
If the only things fans wanted to see was homeruns, pro slow pitch softball would have made Ted Stepian a billionaire.
Its the same with breakaway dunks in basketball. It's the equivalent of a home run. But if that's all fans wanted, the NBA would just have a dunking league.
Fans come to see the rebound and outlet pass, the cross court pass to the open man, the fadeaway jumper from the corner, the blocked shot.
Fans don't want to see actionless baseball, which is what we have today.
They want action, excitement, movement.
A Franmil bomb is fun to watch, but it lasts about five seconds of ball flight as everybody on defense watches and the only movement id Franmil trotting.
Watching somebody score from first on a double, with the outfielder chasing the ball, throwing to a cutoff man, and then the relay to the plate...and the runner sliding in in a cloud of dust..while everybody waits breathlessly for the ump to give a sign....
Thats action, excitement, movement.
sportscoach
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Casual fans don't want to see good pitching, they want to see lots of scoring... Hence why I think Selig turned the blind eye to the steroid issues...
Mott the Hoople
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Action, excitement. Sure that all helps.
So do people. Like with a growing population, not shrinking.
Q. How many MLB teams are based in a market smaller than Cleveland/Akron/Elyria?
A. Only 1. Milwaukee is #40. Cleveland is #34.
So do people. Like with a growing population, not shrinking.
Q. How many MLB teams are based in a market smaller than Cleveland/Akron/Elyria?
A. Only 1. Milwaukee is #40. Cleveland is #34.
DCTribefan
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2024 MLB Attendance - Major League Baseball - ESPN
Check out this 2024 report of MLB attendance sortable by both baseball stadium and team.