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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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I mean, there is…a lockout…

Teams front offices can’t have “official” discussions with other front offices or agents, but you’d be naive if you believe they aren’t havinh back channel discussions, considering the access 99% of the league has with everyone’s personal contact info.

The rush of moves as soon as the lockout is over will show how much leg work was done when teams technically weren’t allowed to talk to each other or negotiate with agents.
The lockout doesn't prevent Team FO's talking with other Team FO's.. players & their agents are off limits..

and you're right.. it would be naive to think otherwise.. of course.. that's what was said and meant..
 
The lockout doesn't prevent Team FO's talking with other Team FO's.. players & their agents are off limits..

and you're right.. it would be naive to think otherwise.. of course.. that's what was said and meant..

Yes, it does.

And I was expanding on your point.
 
Its not desperation at all. It is timing.

You view this team as an 80 win team that is so far behind Chicago that trading for significant upgrades won't make a real difference in 2022.

With Jose only two years away from leaving, and several other core players not far behind, you think that all that production can be easily replaced by in house prospects without missing a beat....but even if that was possible (its not), we would simply be back to an 80 win team.

But adding a full season of Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Quantrill, and TMac to the rotation, plus Straw in CF, and Franmil for another 30 games...plus some normal improvement from a few youngsters...makes this closer to an 88 win team.

Not quite good enough to catch Chicago, but close enough that a few upgrades...one significant...would allow us to pass the Chisox.

Waiting another year to make a push makes zero sense.

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Bradley hits a lot of home runs, but his strike outs and defensive limitations eliminate all his value. Losing him carries very little risk, something as GM I am very willing to do.

Bradley is hardly a proven MLB talent, like so many of our posters are more than willing to trade away for more prospects.

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There isn't a contending team in baseball with an OF need that wouldn't trade Palacios for Happ. Happ is only a 2 WAR player? How many true rookie position players that weve brought up in the last two decades have put up 2 WAR? Not many.

I doubt that StL would trade Yepez for Palacios.

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You say that the Guardians place a higher value on Palacios than outsiders, so he is really more valuable than listed. Well, the same applies to Yepez then, doesn't it?

If Palacios is more valuable than Happ, Yepez is nearly as valuable as which Tribe starter? Quantrill? Civale? Or how about Espino?

Hint: Both assertions are ridiculous.

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Obviously, Yepez is not worth an established and productive MLB player/pitchers in return, and would have to be part of a package in a major trade with us...or part of a more minor deal.

And there lies the rub.

What StL has that we would want in a major trade they won't trade. What StL would want from us in a major trade we won't trade. Trading one of our front line pitchers for one of their starting outfielders would not improve either team...a trade merely for the sake of making a trade.

And if we are talking about a minor trade, its really unlikely that StL is willing to make a minor trade for a kid expected to be in their opening day lineup.

Now, if StL wants to trade from its over abundance of young MLB ready hitters who are scheduled to get to MLB this year (they have four), they might be willing to trade for one of our over abundance of SPs, who could conceivably be slotted into a contending MLB rotation at the beginning of this season....except that we don't have one.

No true contender is interested in slotting Morgan or Morris into their opening day rotation.

StL simply is not a good fit as a trade partner.
My view of this team will be determined when the roster is set and the season starts. As the roster is constructed right now we cannot compete with Chicago, but everyone here knows that there will be some changes. Let's see where that gets us, but the time does not have to be "now". The time is the next 5 yrs and beyond. If that includes 2022 then great.

How in the hell did you get to comparing Yepez and Palacios? I didn't say Palacios is "more valuable than Happ". I stated that this organization values Palacios more than outside analysts. Does that mean that Chernoff wouldn't trade Palacios for Happ? Honestly, I don't know. I suspect that there are several factors that would go into that decision. He very well may view Happ as a marginal upgrade that will not help them catch the White Sox and therefor not worth the investment, but that's just a consideration since I don't know what would be going Chicago's way in the deal.

Morgan and Morris are not the same and some playoff teams rotations very well may be improved with Morris in their rotation. Morgan and Morris are not the same. One has TOR potential while the other is a #5 or a long man out of the pen. If Morris' IP were built up then I would gladly put him in the 5 hole and watch him surpass Plesac, Civale, and pitch right there with McKenzie and Quantrill performance wise. Maybe even outperform them as well.

I cannot say for sure that St. Louis is or isn't a good fit as a trade partner and you may very well be 100% right with the idea that St. Louis has no intentions of dealing Yepez. What I do know is that the Cardinals need at least 1 SP. They may choose to address that in FA making the idea of a Yepez trade pointless.

Similarly, the Guardians may address their OF needs in other ways. Maybe they go big and sign someone like Schwarber. Maybe they go with someone like Taylor. Maybe they start the season seeing what Kwan, Palacios, or a healthy Jones can do. Maybe they make a big trade for someone like Marte. Maybe they make a lesser trade and get someone like Thomas. Maybe they do a couple of these possibilities. Who knows? One thing that is certain is that neither Chernoff or Antonetti are in an "oh shit" now mode. They'll continue to construct this team in their fashion with the type of players they value.
 
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My view of this team will be determined when the roster is set and the season starts. As the roster is constructed right now we cannot compete with Chicago, but everyone here knows that there will be some changes. Let's see where that gets us, but the time does not have to be "now". The time is the next 5 yrs and beyond. If that includes 2022 then great.

How in the hell did you get to comparing Yepez and Palacios? I didn't say Palacios is "more valuable than Happ". I stated that this organization values Palacios more than outside analysts. Does that mean that Chernoff wouldn't trade Palacios for Happ? Honestly, I don't know. I suspect that there are several factors that would go into that decision. He very well may view Happ as a marginal upgrade that will not help them catch the White Sox and therefor not worth the investment, but that's just a consideration since I don't know what would be going Chicago's way in the deal.

Morgan and Morris are not the same and some playoff teams rotations very well may be improved with Morris in their rotation. Morgan and Morris are not the same. One has TOR potential while the other is a #5 or a long man out of the pen. If Morris' IP were built up then I would gladly put him in the 5 hole and watch him surpass Plesac, Civale, and pitch right there with McKenzie and Quantrill performance wise. Maybe even outperform them as well.

I cannot say for sure that St. Louis is or isn't a good fit as a trade partner and you may very well be 100% right with the idea that St. Louis has no intentions of dealing Yepez. What I do know is that the Cardinals need at least 1 SP. They may choose to address that in FA making the idea of a Yepez trade pointless.

Similarly, the Guardians may address their OF needs in other ways. Maybe they go big and sign someone like Schwarber. Maybe they go with someone like Taylor. Maybe they start the season seeing what Kwan, Palacios, or a healthy Jones can do. Maybe they make a big trade for someone like Marte. Maybe they make a lesser trade and get someone like Thomas. Maybe they do a couple of these possibilities. Who knows? One thing that is certain is that neither Chernoff or Antonetti are in an "oh shit" now mode. They'll continue to construct this team in their fashion with the type of players they value.
Cody Morris has been carving up minor league swing and missers for two years now.. He is the classic control over velo college pitcher that the Guardian pro personnel teach to throw harder.. By being added to the forty man roster.. he'll be one of the arms that are on the C-Bus Shuttle, if not, as a member of the rotation depending on the roster make up (read: trades). If there are any near ml ready guardians asked for in a deal, Morris' name has to be one that is brought up.. The numbers he has been putting up aside, his stuff is just that good.. An overlay of his slider, fastball and change up show that the ball travels at least 1/3 of the way from his hand toward home plate before it's path diverges depending on what he's throwing.. This makes an 88-90 mph fastball look like 98-100.. (btw, his normal FB sits 94-96, touching 98) Only if a batter is sitting on a specific pitch in a specific location will he have a chance to put it in play.. It's almost NOT fair.. The one area that Morris doesn't excell at is staying on the hill.. that, may be his biggest hurdle to overcome in 2022.. but a doable hurdle. His value.. if you want to use BTV, that's fine.. is that he's a ML ready SP that commands and controls three plus pitches that he'll throw in ANY count. This is theee most valuable commodity in all of baseball.. He's been a personal fave for last two years.. even to the point of being the only person on this forum to having him in my top ten preseason prospects last year..

Yepez is worth getting.. but not worth over paying for.. A choice of Jose Tena or Tucker Carson level prospect would be more than enough for him.. IMHO, if Yepez is acquired in a deal, he will not be the headliner.. it will be part of a deal that sees the Cardinals acquire a middle infielder and/or a potential starting pitcher..

I like the idea of giving Kwan, Palacios and, if healthy, Nolan Jones some time in the Guardian OF

Lane Thomas closed the 2021 season with the Curly W's with a .270/.365/.490 triple slash.. Until then, he was pedestrian to mediocre.. He'd be a nice addition.. If the Nats wanted Morris as the return.. it would be a deal I would have to hold my nose over and probably pass on.. (my bias in favor or Cody Morris is expressed above) The Nats have a very limited number of spectacular players & prospects & damn near NOTHING else..

Agree that the CleFO approach using an internal valuation system is highly disciplined.. Chernoff with the guidance of Antonetti who learned from Mark Shapiro (and the "Baltimore Crowd" / hank peters before) seldom, if ever, waiver from what they know works w/r to how they cobble together a deal..

Thoughts?..
 
Cody Morris has been carving up minor league swing and missers for two years now.. He is the classic control over velo college pitcher that the Guardian pro personnel teach to throw harder.. By being added to the forty man roster.. he'll be one of the arms that are on the C-Bus Shuttle, if not, as a member of the rotation depending on the roster make up (read: trades). If there are any near ml ready guardians asked for in a deal, Morris' name has to be one that is brought up.. The numbers he has been putting up aside, his stuff is just that good.. An overlay of his slider, fastball and change up show that the ball travels at least 1/3 of the way from his hand toward home plate before it's path diverges depending on what he's throwing.. This makes an 88-90 mph fastball look like 98-100.. (btw, his normal FB sits 94-96, touching 98) Only if a batter is sitting on a specific pitch in a specific location will he have a chance to put it in play.. It's almost NOT fair.. The one area that Morris doesn't excell at is staying on the hill.. that, may be his biggest hurdle to overcome in 2022.. but a doable hurdle. His value.. if you want to use BTV, that's fine.. is that he's a ML ready SP that commands and controls three plus pitches that he'll throw in ANY count. This is theee most valuable commodity in all of baseball.. He's been a personal fave for last two years.. even to the point of being the only person on this forum to having him in my top ten preseason prospects last year..

Yepez is worth getting.. but not worth over paying for.. A choice of Jose Tena or Tucker Carson level prospect would be more than enough for him.. IMHO, if Yepez is acquired in a deal, he will not be the headliner.. it will be part of a deal that sees the Cardinals acquire a middle infielder and/or a potential starting pitcher..

I like the idea of giving Kwan, Palacios and, if healthy, Nolan Jones some time in the Guardian OF

Lane Thomas closed the 2021 season with the Curly W's with a .270/.365/.490 triple slash.. Until then, he was pedestrian to mediocre.. He'd be a nice addition.. If the Nats wanted Morris as the return.. it would be a deal I would have to hold my nose over and probably pass on.. (my bias in favor or Cody Morris is expressed above) The Nats have a very limited number of spectacular players & prospects & damn near NOTHING else..

Agree that the CleFO approach using an internal valuation system is highly disciplined.. Chernoff with the guidance of Antonetti who learned from Mark Shapiro (and the "Baltimore Crowd" / hank peters before) seldom, if ever, waiver from what they know works w/r to how they cobble together a deal..

Thoughts?..
You and I share the same sentiments towards Morris, and I would not trade him for Taylor. I envision Cody Morris pitching near the top of Cleveland's rotation within 3 yrs. I expect him to be a key piece by the 23 season. I expect him to log significant innings for Cleveland this coming season, but his IP will be limited.

I'd like to hear what Bimbo has to say about the organizations' sentiment towards Cody. I'd also like to hear what Jup has to say about Cody's arsenal.

Edited to say that the R5 has yet to happen and that there may be some OF possibilities exposed.
 
You and I share the same sentiments towards Morris, and I would not trade him for Taylor. I envision Cody Morris pitching near the top of Cleveland's rotation within 3 yrs. I expect him to be a key piece by the 23 season. I expect him to log significant innings for Cleveland this coming season, but his IP will be limited.

I'd like to hear what Bimbo has to say about the organizations' sentiment towards Cody. I'd also like to hear what Jup has to say about Cody's arsenal.

Edited to say that the R5 has yet to happen and that there may be some OF possibilities exposed.

We have no open spot on the 40 man roster so its irrelevant what happens to the main roster for the R5... I dont see us losing anyone unless someone feels that a guy like Call or Brooks type is a big leaguer...

I still think Morgan goes into the season as the first man up for the starting staff... Guys like Myers, Morris etc can get in front of him if they prove they are ready for the pros since they have better overall stuff on paper.
 
yes. after the first five.. triple "m": morgan, morris and myers have 2, 3 and 3 options remaining.. all three are on the 40 man roster provides the starting depth.. You can add a few more names to that list.. Battenfield Vargas (would require a 40 man roster move) and Pilkington should also be considered..

So, realistically.. without touching some of the more highly rated prospects, these six added to the five starters (bieber, civale, quantrill, plesac and mCstix) make this a pretty deep group....

Vargas has a better chance of making a bullpen debut..but, as a starter.. he has the weapons and a starter's body..
 
We have no open spot on the 40 man roster so its irrelevant what happens to the main roster for the R5... I dont see us losing anyone unless someone feels that a guy like Call or Brooks type is a big leaguer...

I still think Morgan goes into the season as the first man up for the starting staff... Guys like Myers, Morris etc can get in front of him if they prove they are ready for the pros since they have better overall stuff on paper.
I think Allen will be given the opportunity before Morgan. Like I said earlier, Morris' IP is the issue for the 22 season. How they choose to handle that is unbeknownst to me. Meaning will they let him start the season normally and then limit him later or vice versa?

As it stands now, the rotation is full and until one of the starters is injured or traded there isn't room for them. How they feel about these up and coming SP's will be revealed by opening day.
 
I think Allen will be given the opportunity before Morgan. Like I said earlier, Morris' IP is the issue for the 22 season. How they choose to handle that is unbeknownst to me. Meaning will they let him start the season normally and then limit him later or vice versa?

As it stands now, the rotation is full and until one of the starters is injured or traded there isn't room for them. How they feel about these up and coming SP's will be revealed by opening day.

I dont think Allen will end up as a starter in 22...I just don't see him winning a SP spot, so baring an early injury, its going to be hard to see him stretched out later in the season...
 
yes. after the first five.. triple "m": morgan, morris and myers have 2, 3 and 3 options remaining.. all three are on the 40 man roster provides the starting depth.. You can add a few more names to that list.. Battenfield Vargas (would require a 40 man roster move) and Pilkington should also be considered..

So, realistically.. without touching some of the more highly rated prospects, these six added to the five starters (bieber, civale, quantrill, plesac and mCstix) make this a pretty deep group....

Vargas has a better chance of making a bullpen debut..but, as a starter.. he has the weapons and a starter's body..
I agree that Vargas will be used in the BP, at least for the 22 season. His high octane FB and good slider could prove very useful for the Guardians.

Edited to say that I have very little concern about the 40 man. There are plenty of guys that can be DFA'd with little consequences IMO.
 
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I dont think Allen will end up as a starter in 22...I just don't see him winning a SP spot, so baring an early injury, its going to be hard to see him stretched out later in the season...
I think Allen could be the long man out of the BP while Morgan starts the season in Columbus. Allen has some upside that Morgan doesn't possess so I don't think they'll scrap Allen to the BP just yet. He's walking a very fine line though so we'll see what happens. Something has to give even more so than the MIF situation IMO. It's a good position to be in if you need to add to your lineup. There are many teams that could use a good SP or some SP depth.
 
I think Allen could be the long man out of the BP while Morgan starts the season in Columbus. Allen has some upside that Morgan doesn't possess so I don't think they'll scrap Allen to the BP just yet. He's walking a very fine line though so we'll see what happens. Something has to give even more so than the MIF situation IMO. It's a good position to be in if you need to add to your lineup. There are many teams that could use a good SP or some SP depth.

We lack lefties as an organization so him and Hentges could easily end up in the pen if they have solid springs. He just has to show growth from 21...
 
I agree that Vargas will be used in the BP, at least for the 22 season. His high octane FB and good slider could prove very useful for the Guardians.

Edited to say that I have very little concern about the 40 man. There are plenty of guys that can be DFA'd with little consequences IMO.
..but arguing a low level player or prospect being lopped off the forty man roster and would be lost for nothing is.. at the very least.. a useless comeback argument !.. :chuckle:
 
I think Allen could be the long man out of the BP while Morgan starts the season in Columbus. Allen has some upside that Morgan doesn't possess so I don't think they'll scrap Allen to the BP just yet. He's walking a very fine line though so we'll see what happens. Something has to give even more so than the MIF situation IMO. It's a good position to be in if you need to add to your lineup. There are many teams that could use a good SP or some SP depth.
Don't forget that Hentges, Gose & Logan S Allen are all out of options.
Eli Morgan still has an option so he can go to CBus without being exposed to waivers, remain stretched out and then be a viable depth starter during the 1st part of the season if the need arises
 
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Don't forget that Hentges, Gose & Logan S Allen are all out of options.
Eli Morgan still has an option so he can go to CBus without being exposed to waivers, remain stretched out and then be a viable depth starter during the 1st part of the season if the need arises
Pretty much why I stated that Allen is the long man out of the BP and Morgan starts the year in Columbus. lol

Hentges and Gose are RP from the get go and I like it that way. Power armed LHRP are not a dime a dozen.

Edited to say that what you say about Morgan could also apply to Stephans.
 
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