Poll for Decision on Rosario...

[KluberSociety]

Seattle, Houston, Tampa, NY and Toronto all have as good or better 1-2 punches. Our advantage lies in the BP and our disadvantage lies in the lack of offensive power. Regardless, the games have to be played and the Guardians are clearly playing well.

Yeah guess you could throw Cole / Severino or Cortez and Gausman / Stripling into the mix too. The latter has pretty objectively outpitched our two this year although I don't know what they've done lately.

 

[Benway]

The question to me is not whether to keep him or trade him, but how much do you want to pay him?

$4.95 mil? Any day, all day.

$9 mil in '23 after arb? He's gonna be pretty good for a couple more years for sure.

$125 mil/5 yrs? Can't do it, Sally.

Somewhere in between? OK, but where? Do we have any idea what might be the starting point?

 

[CATS44]

Because there will be several high end shortstops on the FA market and because there are literally dozens of shortstops on various top 100 lists, Amed doesn't hold much trade value nor value on the FA market.

He is one of those solid, yet unspectacular, veteran players caught in the new economics of baseball.

Retaining him now won't make much difference in what we might get for him. He will probably get about $7.5 mil in arby, which is about what a contender would pay for a decent stop gap FA...which is exactly the situation we have at SS.

His value to this team is higher than it would be to another team...and higher to this team than just his play on the field. He has obviously become a leader, a veteran example, and the epitome of this orgs culture. It is questionable that any of our multiple MIF prospects could replace his on field value next year, and impossible that any of them could replace his intangibles.

If by now fans have not seen the value of culture and intangibles with this team, they never will. When the org picked up Brantleys option in spite of his injury history, Tito said that they were paying for the man more than the player. In some ways, this applies to Amed.

Playing a new position is now very unlikely, because the needs are no longer there. We have OFs up the kazoo.

It is likely that Amed will be our starting SS in 2023.

 

[CDAV45]

Amed is clearly of good character. That's his biggest draw IMO, but this roster is constructed with guys that have good character. They just don't tolerate any BS. I don't think Amed will be around after this season because there are a few immensely talented prospects that are either ready or damn near it. We'll see how it plays out, but Amed isn't likely long for this team.

 

[Ohio]

During the postgame celebration, Jose Ramirez just called over Antonetti mid-interview and told him he wanted to keep playing with Rosario...

 

[Real Deal]

I find myself getting attached to Rosario...

This is the toughest decision our organization has faced in some time and they have to nail it.

 

[BimboColesHair]

rcristal is Jose Ramirez.

 

[Tondo]

During the postgame celebration, Jose Ramirez just called over Antonetti mid-interview and told him he wanted to keep playing with Rosario...

If they pull off winning the whole damn thing this year, I wouldn't mind trading both as a package, if that's what he wants. I'm only half joking.

Rosario is too bad a SS to move others around him to accommodate for his lack of positional flexibility. He can take Miller's job for the next 5 years, I'd sign off on that, but not our SS with Gimenez, Rocchio, Arias, Freeman, Martinez, Tena in the org, no way.

Amed's also not needed in the OF picture anymore. It's super Util or play SS elsewhere, sorry Jose.

 

[CATS44]

Many on here keep repeating the same misrepresentation of Ameds defense in hopes that it becomes fact.

Amed is not a bad shortstop. He is not a great shortstop, and thats a big difference from bad.

Among twelve qualified AL shortstops, he ranks...

5th in DRS.
1st in UZR
1st in UZR/150
1st in ErrE
5th in FPC

Thats not bad....its above average. Overall, he is an average SS.

The assumption is that one of our prospects can be at least as good as Amed next year. I wonder what the assumption for Amed would have been on this board four years ago about Amed. Instant All Star...lol.

Lets take a look at Amed, Lindor, Arias, Freeman, and Rocchio as they were/are on the verge of MLB ..

Amed 65 FV...55/60 defense.
Lindor 60 FV...55/60 defense.
Arias 45 FV....55/55 defense.
Freeman 50 FV...45/50 defense.
Rocchio 50 FV...60/60 defense.

At the point that these prospects were MLB ready, Amed was the highest rated prospect. Only Rocchio is rated higher defensively, and both Arias and Freeman are rated lower than Amed with a glove.

Any assumption that the 2023 Guardians would be a better team by replacing Amed with a prospect is foolish....unless you EXPECT the prospect to be Lindor from the get go.

 

[BimboColesHair]

UZR, DRS. Nice stats, but don't tell the whole picture.

-6 OAA, 33rd amongst all qualified SS
75% success rate on play attempts made, 22nd amongst all qualified SS
-2% success rate added on his play attempts, 32nd amongst all qualified SS
-9 OAA going to his left, worst amongst all qualified SS
-1 OAA going to his right, 30th amongst all qualified SS

All your numbers and mine tell me is the Guardians do a good job positioning Amed on the diamond to make his defense somewhat passable and he is a terrific shortstop when the ball is hit right to him.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Many on here keep repeating the same misrepresentation of Ameds defense in hopes that it becomes fact.

Amed is not a bad shortstop. He is not a great shortstop, and thats a big difference from bad.

Among twelve qualified AL shortstops, he ranks...

5th in DRS.
1st in UZR
1st in UZR/150
1st in ErrE
5th in FPC

Thats not bad....its above average. Overall, he is an average SS.

The assumption is that one of our prospects can be at least as good as Amed next year. I wonder what the assumption for Amed would have been on this board four years ago about Amed. Instant All Star...lol.

Lets take a look at Amed, Lindor, Arias, Freeman, and Rocchio as they were/are on the verge of MLB ..

Amed 65 FV...55/60 defense.
Lindor 60 FV...55/60 defense.
Arias 45 FV....55/55 defense.
Freeman 50 FV...45/50 defense.
Rocchio 50 FV...60/60 defense.

At the point that these prospects were MLB ready, Amed was the highest rated prospect. Only Rocchio is rated higher defensively, and both Arias and Freeman are rated lower than Amed with a glove.

Any assumption that the 2023 Guardians would be a better team by replacing Amed with a prospect is foolish....unless you EXPECT the prospect to be Lindor from the get go.

Poor defense, average bat, veteran on the last year of his deal who is blocking multiple top-100 prospects.

I think we all see the writing on the wall.

It's the same writing that was on the wall for Kluber.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Bauer.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Lindor.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Clevinger.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Cliff Lee.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for CC Sabathia.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Vinnie Pestano.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Asdrubal Cabrera.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Justin Masterson.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Shin-soo Choo

This team isn't just going to let a trade asset burn up for the privilege of blocking talented young guys who are ready. The absolute best case for Amed staying on the team is a lack of trade interest in the offseason leading to him playing SS or an OF spot until the youth surpasses him.

Amed's a fun player. I love his speed. It's fun when he's hot. It's incredibly frustrating when he's cold and swinging at balls in the opposite batter's box. Thanks for making 2022 special and best of luck in your future endeavors.

 

[Lee]

Poor defense, average bat, veteran on the last year of his deal who is blocking multiple top-100 prospects.

I think we all see the writing on the wall.

It's the same writing that was on the wall for Kluber.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Bauer.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Lindor.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Clevinger.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Cliff Lee.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for CC Sabathia.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Vinnie Pestano.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Asdrubal Cabrera.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Justin Masterson.
It's the same writing that was on the wall for Shin-soo Choo

This team isn't just going to let a trade asset burn up for the privilege of blocking talented young guys who are ready. The absolute best case for Amed staying on the team is a lack of trade interest in the offseason leading to him playing SS or an OF spot until the youth surpasses him.

Amed's a fun player. I love his speed. It's fun when he's hot. It's incredibly frustrating when he's cold and swinging at balls in the opposite batter's box. Thanks for making 2022 special and best of luck in your future endeavors.

He has a better than average bat, that is why he is controversial what we do with him and he is loved by his teammates.

But everything else is true, he is blocking several better defenders some who project to have as good of a bat. Issue is the word project vs a 2 year solid history with us offensively.

But i think the writing is on the wall for him to be traded. Even if all things being equal, team control is very, very important and Giminez is the one you lock up long term and "break the bank for", not Ahmed.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

He has a better than average bat

His career OPS+ is 96. Last year was 100 (exactly league average) and this year is currently 106 (slightly above league average). His wRC+ (Fangraphs's competitor to OPS+ which is better because it's based off wRC) is 103, which again is slightly above average.

However, if you look just against shortstops, he's below average. He's 14th among the 21 qualified shortstops on Fangraphs, and this doesn't even include studs that are hurt or suspended like Tatis or Tim Anderson.

So, I think Amed has an average bat if you're just talking about all players--but a below average bat if you're talking about shortstops.

 

[CDAV45]

They might start the 23 season with Amed and allow Arias and Rocchio time to settle in before shipping him out by the deadline.

They might start the 23 season with Gimenez at SS and Freeman at 2B.

However it plays out, Amed is not long for this organization nor should he be, but we've discussed this before.

 

[Tondo]

Many on here keep repeating the same misrepresentation of Ameds defense in hopes that it becomes fact.

Amed is not a bad shortstop. He is not a great shortstop, and thats a big difference from bad.

Among twelve qualified AL shortstops, he ranks...

5th in DRS.
1st in UZR
1st in UZR/150
1st in ErrE
5th in FPC

Thats not bad....its above average. Overall, he is an average SS.

The assumption is that one of our prospects can be at least as good as Amed next year. I wonder what the assumption for Amed would have been on this board four years ago about Amed. Instant All Star...lol.

Lets take a look at Amed, Lindor, Arias, Freeman, and Rocchio as they were/are on the verge of MLB ..

Amed 65 FV...55/60 defense.
Lindor 60 FV...55/60 defense.
Arias 45 FV....55/55 defense.
Freeman 50 FV...45/50 defense.
Rocchio 50 FV...60/60 defense.

At the point that these prospects were MLB ready, Amed was the highest rated prospect. Only Rocchio is rated higher defensively, and both Arias and Freeman are rated lower than Amed with a glove.

Any assumption that the 2023 Guardians would be a better team by replacing Amed with a prospect is foolish....unless you EXPECT the prospect to be Lindor from the get go.

Done cherry picking?

Go to FanGraphs. List all SS with at least 100 PA, that's 50. Rank them for DEF score, which incorporates ALL defense. Rosario ranks 44th (-1.8). That's bad.