Starting lineups - who in the 2 hole

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

Seems as if I touched a nerve.
I will say it again, in my opinion as a long time coach and fan, Rosario is definitely a candidate for being our answer at shortstop for the next few seasons. In short, the young man hustles, hits, is a plus defender and is one of the finest base runners in the game. In short, he is a winner. Let's not fix what is not broken.
I have been called many things in my long life but silly is not one.
Rcristal

Is there a different Rosario that you've been talking about this entire time?

Amed Rosario has many strengths--but he is not a plus defender at SS.

And, to your last sentence, if you're trying to tell people that Amed Rosario is a plus defender at SS, you're a silly man.

 

[rcristal]

What is your estimated years and money to extend Rosario?

I admit I am not as up to speed as many of you as to finances. I am more of an old school guy who studies the game itself. I am not into agents, multi million dollar long term contracts etc.
Having said that I might suggest 2-3 years. This might protect both parties. If I am wrong in my assessment of Rosario the fallout would not be as great. If I am correct then he is still young enough to collect in a big way while still in his prime.
Just my opinion.
Rcristal

 

[KluberSociety]

Arias showed he was ML ready in his second stint last season..

The question, IMO, is what he is ML ready for exactly. It seems the org is somewhat down on his SS glove and is seeing him more as a Miller replacement. However like Miller he has a history of sucking against LHP. And if you expect someone with that kind of history to magically turn it around by plugging him into the ML lineup regularly, we could end up with another Miller situation. If Arias is our idea of a RH bat to sub for Naylor then I might ask why him...

He looked good with the bat at the end of last year so I see him as someone with a decent probability of even being a full time player. There's just so many career trajectories for him though. Utility guy all around the diamond, full time 3B, full time SS, bust, etc... I just don't get him as a platoon 1B.

 

[sportscoach]

Is there a different Rosario that you've been talking about this entire time?

Amed Rosario has many strengths--but he is not a plus defender at SS.

And, to your last sentence, if you're trying to tell people that Amed Rosario is a plus defender at SS, you're a silly man.

Now that being stated... No he isn't a plus defender, but he actually had positive fielding in 22 because he cut his errors way down. So as long as he got to it, he rarely messed up.

Even though he is quick, his range (by the stats) isn't all that good and shifts helped cover up that range issue. So I expect him to go backwards in 23 unless he finds a way to add a little more range...

I admit I am not as up to speed as many of you as to finances. I am more of an old school guy who studies the game itself. I am not into agents, multi million dollar long term contracts etc.
Having said that I might suggest 2-3 years. This might protect both parties. If I am wrong in my assessment of Rosario the fallout would not be as great. If I am correct then he is still young enough to collect in a big way while still in his prime.
Just my opinion.
Rcristal

I'll be honest... If I was his agent, I wouldn't advise him to take an extension with Cleveland.

Reason 1) the years and money will likely be less than he can get elsewhere

Reason 2) Cleveland has so much talent at MIF... It's hard to see Cleveland keeping him long cause of it...

I get that you like Rosario and sincerely there wouldn't be a lot of issues if we kept him in 23, but beyond that, what do we do with all the MIF talent we have... I mean we have Rocchio, Tena, Brito and Martinez who haven't even hits the bigs yet, with Arias and Freeman already there.

Then JRam has 3B and Gimenez made himself and All-Star... Rosario is average at everything but getting singles... We are going to allow an average player to block 6 prospects? That just doesn't happen on a small market team.

Reason why I am okay with Rosario staying in Cleveland for 23 is the fact he has become a leader and our top MIF talent in Rocchio isn't MLB ready in 23... in 24, we will have those 6 guys trying to 6 one spot... He isn't going to be here in 24...

 

[Derek]

Definitely shouldn’t be Rosario against righties. He’s acceptable vs lefties though.

 

[sportscoach]

Definitely shouldn’t be Rosario against righties. He’s acceptable vs lefties though.

How would you set it up?

I just feel like we don't have a good 2 hole guy at the moment...

 

[Derek]

The question, IMO, is what he is ML ready for exactly. It seems the org is somewhat down on his SS glove and is seeing him more as a Miller replacement.

I don’t think that’s accurate. It was just the easiest way to get him playing time last year.

However like Miller he has a history of sucking against LHP. And if you expect someone with that kind of history to magically turn it around by plugging him into the ML lineup regularly, we could end up with another Miller situation. If Arias is our idea of a RH bat to sub for Naylor then I might ask why him...

Arias does not have a history of sucking against lefties. His splits are fairly close to even in AAA and his last season before COVID, he crushed lefties.

He looked good with the bat at the end of last year so I see him as someone with a decent probability of even being a full time player. There's just so many career trajectories for him though. Utility guy all around the diamond, full time 3B, full time SS, bust, etc... I just don't get him as a platoon 1B.

It’ll be interesting to see how they fit him into the mix because I definitely believe he should be in the lineup more often than not.

 

[KluberSociety]

Arias does not have a history of sucking against lefties. His splits are fairly close to even in AAA and his last season before COVID, he crushed lefties.

False. He hasn't had any success against lefties since 2019. He's been a whiff machine against lefties above A+.

I don’t think that’s accurate. It was just the easiest way to get him playing time last year.

Maybe, I'm not sure but even Bimbo himself didn't rate his glove very high.

 

[Derek]

False. He hasn't had any success against lefties since 2019. He's been a whiff machine against lefties above A+.


Maybe, I'm not sure but even Bimbo himself didn't rate his glove very high.

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here.

 

[CDAV45]

Definitely shouldn’t be Rosario against righties. He’s acceptable vs lefties though.

If he's acceptable against LHP then I'd rather attempt to get Rengifo. Take a look at his numbers against LHP. Maybe they would take Rosario for him?

False. He hasn't had any success against lefties since 2019. He's been a whiff machine against lefties above A+.


Maybe, I'm not sure but even Bimbo himself didn't rate his glove very high.

Unless I recall incorrectly, the bolded is not true. Bimbo saw the value in him defensively and pretty much said that he's as good as Rocchio with the glove. Each have their different strengths, but Bimbo rates Arias highly with the glove.

 

[Urban]

False. He hasn't had any success against lefties since 2019. He's been a whiff machine against lefties above A+.

2021 & 2022 Minors

vs LHP
.258 / .316 / .417
28.8% K rate
7.9% BB rate

vs RHP
.269 / .329 / . 440
22.4% K rate
8.2% BB rate

Splits are pretty similar. What am I missing here?

 

[sportscoach]

If he's acceptable against LHP then I'd rather attempt to get Rengifo. Take a look at his numbers against LHP. Maybe they would take Rosario for him?

Unless I recall incorrectly, the bolded is not true. Bimbo saw the value in him defensively and pretty much said that he's as good as Rocchio with the glove. Each have their different strengths, but Bimbo rates Arias highly with the glove.

Bimbo liked his glove... I'm not sure where anyone says his glove is bad. There is a reason why his comparison is a Carlos Correa type....

 

[CDAV45]

Bimbo liked his glove... I'm not sure where anyone says his glove is bad. There is a reason why his comparison is a Carlos Correa type....

We all have our opinions, but I'm excited to see what Arias can/will do. I accept the fact that he may be nothing more than a good defensive player that can run into one every so often, but I truly believe he is much more than that.

 

[CDAV45]

Add Zach Collins to the NRI catching depth.

 

[PPark]

We all have our opinions, but I'm excited to see what Arias can/will do. I accept the fact that he may be nothing more than a good defensive player that can run into one every so often, but I truly believe he is much more than that.

There is value in having a utility infielder (capable of actually being adequate at multiple positions) that can run into one.
My impression from watching him extensively in ‘21 was (still is) he doesn’t possess an everyday bat. Sure hope he carves out a place for himself in mlb.