The Rise of Skywalker spoilers thread

[Sebastian]

Just watch this last scene in Rogue One:

Multiple story arches coming to an end but the pacing, score, tone is setup so you can feel the gravitas of the setting. For all of JJ Abrams doing Star Destroyer, Final order super fleet with super guns, the single shot of the giant death star conveys so much more of the terror of the thing then throwing so much crap on the screen that you're struggling to figure out what the hell is going on. In the final scene of ROS, your thinking how did Lando get all those ships, why is their only one navigation system at a time, why are there horses on a star destroyer at high altitude, guessing which one will die and rebirth and then die and rebirth again.

Like Rogue One they need a guy like Tony Gilroy to come in and save the script but you can't overide JJ Abrams.

Or they could have just actually liked Star Wars and respected what made the movies well loved. Similar to RO see how in ROTJ there is a focus and clarity to the EP and Luke scenes without the utter chaos of the ROS

And do you know what else pisses me off?

In every film that is part of a beloved franchise, whether it be Trek or Wars, Abrams takes enormous liberty with large parts of the milieu in order to build up new characters.

And then never explains the change in events within the film; but does it in some comic book or whatever, to retcon obvious plot holes.

In this case, evidently Ashoka Tano is dead. Here voice is heard with the other dead Jedi.

The last we saw of her, she was very much alive. She is a fantastic character and a very powerful Force user.

Telling us she died in some comic book a year down the line, just to build-up THE Mary Sue, would fit with JJ's pattern.

 

[theSTEREO.]

And do you know what else pisses me off?

In every film that is part of a beloved franchise, whether it be Trek or Wars, Abrams takes enormous liberty with large parts of the milieu in order to build up new characters.

And then never explains the change in events within the film; but does it in some comic book or whatever, to retcon obvious plot holes.

In this case, evidently Ashoka Tano is dead. Here voice is heard with the other dead Jedi.

The last we saw of her, she was very much alive. She is a fantastic character and a very powerful Force user.

Telling us she died in some comic book a year down the line, just to build-up THE Mary Sue, would fit with JJ's pattern.

The last we saw Ahsoka was 35 years before this movie and she is 17 years older than Leia. Of course she’s dead.

This feels like complaining just to complain. Also, Ahsoka was shredded by SW "fans" as a Mary Sue when she was introduced as well. Goal posts continue to move :/

 

[Sebastian]

The last we saw Ahsoka was 35 years before this movie and she is 17 years older than Leia. Of course she’s dead.

This feels like complaining just to complain. Also, Ahsoka was shredded by SW "fans" as a Mary Sue when she was introduced as well. Goal posts continue to move :/

You’re right, no one could possibly be alive at the age of 75.

Goal posts? An interesting way to deflect criticism with a bout of Whattaboutism.

 

[theSTEREO.]

You’re right, no one could possibly be alive at the age of 75.

Goal posts? An interesting way to deflect criticism with a bout of Whattaboutism.

What is your point then? What would Ahsoka being alive or dead have accomplished for this movie or had any effect positively or negatively on Rey?

 

[Sebastian]

What is your point then? What would Ahsoka being alive or dead have accomplished for this movie or had any effect positively or negatively on Rey?

I made my point quite clearly in the first post concerning the issue.

I may be complaining but you’re complaining about my complaining, so?

Happy Christmas!

 

[theSTEREO.]

I made my point quite clearly in the first post concerning the issue.

I may be complaining but you’re complaining about my complaining, so?

“Telling us she died just to build up THE MARY SUE...”

That is clear? In what way?

 

[Sebastian]

“Telling us she died just to build up THE MARY SUE...”

That is clear? In what way?

It is a common complaint lodged against JJ films.

The cavalier death or destruction, or treatment, of characters or other parts of the genre’s mythos to enhance characterization of new characters.

See Romulus, Vulcan or Khan in his Star Trek films.

 

[theSTEREO.]

It is a common complaint lodged against JJ films.

The cavalier death or destruction, or treatment, of characters or other parts of the genre’s mythos to enhance characterization of new characters.

See Romulus, Vulcan or Khan in his Star Trek films.

I simply don't understand or agree with your idea that Ahsoka not being alive does this. I'm a huge Ahsoka fan, and have either watched or read anything she's appeared in. And I still don't see how her being alive or not has any bearing on the characters in this trilogy. Feel free to enlighten me.

Despite being a huge Star Wars fan, I don't usually engage in this thread, but I dunno man, there is so much that is criticizable in this franchise, I don't see how inventing something like this is even necessary.

I don't really care about Star Trek, so you may be right about those, I don't really know that world.

 

[Sebastian]

I simply don't understand or agree with your idea that Ahsoka not being alive does this. I'm a huge Ahsoka fan, and have either watched or read anything she's appeared in. And I still don't see how her being alive or not has any bearing on the characters in this trilogy. Feel free to enlighten me.

Despite being a huge Star Wars fan, I don't usually engage in this thread, but I dunno man, there is so much that is criticizable in this franchise, I don't see how inventing something like this is even necessary.

I don't really care about Star Trek, so you may be right about those, I don't really know that world.

It is as simple as killing off Akbar to create a need to introduce Haldo (technically not JJ).

Or Han dying. Or Vulcan being destroyed in Abrams’ Trek just to facilitate Spock’s anger. Or Luke’s entire story arc in this trilogy.

It is taking an established, loved character, killing them to create an emotional resonance for a new character, and/or substituting that shock value for a lack of real back story for a new protagonist. Abrams is notorious for it.

And it isn’t just killing characters; it is doing it in such an afterthought way that is sometimes out of no where and without explanation.

We don’t know what happened Ashoka after Rebels and her death is just casually inferred. It isn’t explained and we’ll probably have to wait for some comic book to find out. It isn’t an event in itself but merely a tool to empower a newer character. A throw away.

It’s sloppy filmmaking that cheapens the material that comes before it. They might as well insert a new post-credit scene after the last episode of Rebels that says: “Ashoka died on the way back to her home planet.”

 

[Ohio]

Saw it last night, thought it was decent. Definitely better than TLJ, which this movie made completely worthless.

Some cool moments and some super cringey moments. But overall the movie was a clusterfuck. It's like Abrams completely ignored TLJ (can't blame him) and crammed two movies into one. Separate this into two movies, with more character development/dialogue and less forced fan service, and this could have even been good.

With better planning, this trilogy could have at least been OK. Disney really fucked up.

I hope like hell this is the end to this entire storyline and these characters.

 

[Sebastian]

Ah yisssss, Ashoka lives:

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Saw it last night, thought it was decent. Definitely better than TLJ, which this movie made completely worthless.

Some cool moments and some super cringey moments. But overall the movie was a clusterfuck. It's like Abrams completely ignored TLJ (can't blame him) and crammed two movies into one. Separate this into two movies, with more character development/dialogue and less forced fan service, and this could have even been good.

With better planning, this trilogy could have at least been OK. Disney really fucked up.

I hope like hell this is the end to this entire storyline and these characters.

Pretty much how I saw it as well -- good and bad. Although I still blame Abrams because his completely unoriginal first installment dropped the ball on creating a story that could hold up over three movies. As bad as TLJ was -- and it was bad -- at least it was a (completely shitty) attempt to write something different. And predictably, Abrams' TROS ended with basically the same scene as did ROTJ.

Other than being a complete clusterfuck plot wise, the most aggravating thing to me was the lack of internal consistency. I can accept fantasy/SF worlds with different rules from out own as long as they follow those rules. Instead, Abrams pulled shit out of his ass scene by scene, regardless of what had come before, just to maximize the drama of that one scene in isolation. So Rey can do magical backflips 40 feet into the air to slice the wing off an Imperial fighter...but then later has to climb tortuously, hand by hand, up the interior of the Death Star wreckage to try to find the McGuffin. Huh? Then there was the artificial timetable of 16 hours before the Final Order fleet launched...but there was no way in fucking hell all that stuff could have happened in that short a period. Not to mention that one of the generals mentioned that they're going to have to step up recruitment to man that massive Final Order fleet...but then the Fleet is fully manned and ready to go in 16 hours? WTF??? Finn has the big thing he was going to tell Rey...but we never find out what that was. It just kind of went on an on -- the only way to watch the movie was not to think about the logic of what you were seeing, and just enjoy it scene by scene.

It did feel more like a Star Wars movie to me than the last two did, so it was better in that sense. In terms of ratings....if it had been on the SyFy channel, I wouldn't have turned it off like I would have the last two. I would have watched it to the end, said "that was okay", and then moved on. But my son wanted to see it, so....

We're now looking forward to "Lord of the Rings IV -- The Return of Sauron!"

 

[Rich]

Saw it last night, thought it was decent. Definitely better than TLJ, which this movie made completely worthless.

Some cool moments and some super cringey moments. But overall the movie was a clusterfuck. It's like Abrams completely ignored TLJ (can't blame him) and crammed two movies into one. Separate this into two movies, with more character development/dialogue and less forced fan service, and this could have even been good.

With better planning, this trilogy could have at least been OK. Disney really fucked up.

I hope like hell this is the end to this entire storyline and these characters.

The "different directors" thing killed this whole trilogy.

As did JJ apparently not having any idea where he wanted it it go.

Because this movie did to TLJ what TLJ did to Force Awakens. Each new movie made the previous movie totally worthless.

I remember after Force Awakens I REALLY thought that Snoke was taking us in a somewhat different direction. Where it wasn't Sith vs. Jedi. I thought Luke had found some interesting, unknown secrets at the first Jedi Temple. And then TLJ just completely tossed those out the window.

Just...man was this whole thing a piece of shit.

 

[Pioneer10]

Pretty much how I saw it as well -- good and bad. Although I still blame Abrams because his completely unoriginal first installment dropped the ball on creating a story that could hold up over three movies. As bad as TLJ was -- and it was bad -- at least it was a (completely shitty) attempt to write something different. And predictably, Abrams' TROS ended with basically the same scene as did ROTJ.

Other than being a complete clusterfuck plot wise, the most aggravating thing to me was the lack of internal consistency. I can accept fantasy/SF worlds with different rules from out own as long as they follow those rules. Instead, Abrams pulled shit out of his ass scene by scene, regardless of what had come before, just to maximize the drama of that one scene in isolation. So Rey can do magical backflips 40 feet into the air to slice the wing off an Imperial fighter...but then later has to climb tortuously, hand by hand, up the interior of the Death Star wreckage to try to find the McGuffin. Huh? Then there was the artificial timetable of 16 hours before the Final Order fleet launched...but there was no way in fucking hell all that stuff could have happened in that short a period. Not to mention that one of the generals mentioned that they're going to have to step up recruitment to man that massive Final Order fleet...but then the Fleet is fully manned and ready to go in 16 hours? WTF??? Finn has the big thing he was going to tell Rey...but we never find out what that was. It just kind of went on an on -- the only way to watch the movie was not to think about the logic of what you were seeing, and just enjoy it scene by scene.

It did feel more like a Star Wars movie to me than the last two did, so it was better in that sense. In terms of ratings....if it had been on the SyFy channel, I wouldn't have turned it off like I would have the last two. I would have watched it to the end, said "that was okay", and then moved on. But my son wanted to see it, so....

We're now looking forward to "Lord of the Rings IV -- The Return of Sauron!"

I didn't get this at all: what was kylo trying to do here? Run her over with a tie figther instead just blasting her to pieces.

 

[JDailey23]

Saw it today. I’m not a Star Wars nut. I go to be entertained. I was entertained. Only thing I would have liked was to see Ben at the end with Luke and Leah. Other than that. 4/5 stars,
good movie!