Trade ideas: Offseason edition

[WorldFreeB]

Washington is indeed a great landing spot for Kevin Love. If they get desperate, we might be able to offload Love while getting some value back.

Cleveland receives: Davis Bertans, Thomas Bryant & Chandler Hutchinson

Washington receives: Kevin Love

Why?

Cleveland moves on from Love. In this trade, they get some value. Bertans is signed on a reasonable deal & is one of the best shooting big man in the league. Bryant is a starting calliber player coming off an injury.

Washington gambles on Love regaining some of his form. He'd be a nice fit next to their two stars.

As a cavs fan I'm making this deal asap,,if I could offload Bertans to another team for a shorter contract i would do that.
You aren't getting anymore from Washington value wise than this package...and you would be lucky if they would do this.
Not a bad idea from my perspective.

 

[inliner311]

As a cavs fan I'm making this deal asap,,if I could offload Bertans to another team for a shorter contract i would do that.
You aren't getting anymore from Washington value wise than this package...and you would be lucky if they would do this.
Not a bad idea from my perspective.

I think the two biggest factors to this would be getting a decent player with a shorter contract than Bertans and who we draft this year. I think the front office would be alot more motivated to move Love and even Nance if we draft a PF this year.

If we draft a wing though, the urge to win might keep Love on the roster. I don't think the front office wants to impair this team from making a jump.

 

[cliffdawg]

In no universe would I be losing Allen to keep Hartenstien even if it means overpaying Allen, I guarantee the FO thinks the same way….There teams out there right now hoping our FO feels like a lot of you , I’m not over paying for Allen Crowd.. Hartenstien at best is a 5 to 6 million a year player, nobody is going to over pay for him…..

 

[Ozone]

In no universe would I be losing Allen to keep Hartenstien even if it means overpaying Allen, I guarantee the FO thinks the same way….There teams out there right now hoping our FO feels like a lot of you , I’m not over paying for Allen Crowd.. Hartenstien at best is a 5 to 6 million a year player, nobody is going to over pay for him…..

He is getting paid for sure, because they traded a first for him, but he needs to develop and lacks some of the things Hartenstein already has in his toolbox, like being able to pass out of the low post, and shoot the basketball farther than ten feet. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility they could reject a overpay offer sheet & get the same production as Allen out of WCS or Theis in free agency for half the cost per year. This would allow them to keep Hartenstein with the amount it will take to keep him. Hartenstein is the same age as Allen and is better as is imo. Has to be a factor, even though Allen has more polarizing rim protection and upside lol. and a cool hairstyle smh

 

[2 For The Brew]

He is getting paid for sure, because they traded a first for him, but he needs to develop and lacks some of the things Hartenstein already has in his toolbox, like being able to pass out of the low post, and shoot the basketball farther than ten feet. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility they could reject a overpay offer sheet & get the same production as Allen out of WCS or Theis in free agency for half the cost per year. This would allow them to keep Hartenstein with the amount it will take to keep him. Hartenstein is the same age as Allen and is better as is imo. Has to be a factor, even though Allen has more polarizing rim protection and upside lol. and a cool hairstyle smh

Actually Allen shoots a higher percentage of his shots from > 10 feet and makes a higher percentage as well compared to Hartenstein, who shoots less than 10% of his shots from > 10 feet (all stats career stats).

 

[Ozone]

Actually Allen shoots a higher percentage of his shots from > 10 feet and makes a higher percentage as well compared to Hartenstein, who shoots less than 10% of his shots from > 10 feet (all stats career stats).

For the Cavs Hartenstein, at a much lower sample size , had nearly the exact same production in the restricted area and paint non ra as Allen, but he also showed a mid range game that Allen has not developed, also however at a small sample size. It is promising.
I just think with the passing ability ,and the clear shooting ability in small sample size, Hartenstein is underrated and could do more with more usage.
Not sure what you used for your data here is what I am looking at as far as stats anyway:https://www.nba.com/stats/players/s...sition=C&DistanceRange=By Zone&PerMode=Totals

 

[B Mac]

For the Cavs Hartenstein, at a much lower sample size , had nearly the exact same production in the restricted area and paint non ra as Allen, but he also showed a mid range game that Allen has not developed, also however at a small sample size. It is promising.
I just think with the passing ability ,and the clear shooting ability in small sample size, Hartenstein is underrated and could do more with more usage.
Not sure what you used for your data here is what I am looking at as far as stats anyway:https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shooting/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612739&PlayerPosition=C&DistanceRange=By Zone&PerMode=Totals

I'd caution a bit on comparing their Cavs stats head to head. Allen played most of his minutes against opposing teams starters. Hartenstein played a significant portion of his minutes against backups and during blow outs.

Additionally, a really small sample size.

I like Hartenstein an awful lot, but I worry quite a bit that Hartenstein the backup and the guy you would have to count as a fringe starter, wouldn't be comparable players.

 

[Ozone]

I'd caution a bit on comparing their Cavs stats head to head. Allen played most of his minutes against opposing teams starters. Hartenstein played a significant portion of his minutes against backups and during blow outs.

Additionally, a really small sample size.

I like Hartenstein an awful lot, but I worry quite a bit that Hartenstein the backup and the guy you would have to count as a fringe starter, wouldn't be comparable players.

The key here for me, is he showed what is almost always evident, when a playmaking big is about to break into a bigger role.
I am pretty certain small sample and competition level aside, that he is farther along than Allen in their development offensively. I am not suggesting they just get rid of the guy they just traded a first round pick for, but what I saw from Hartenstein, was enough imo to make anyone think twice about matching an insane offer sheet. If he even gets one. Personally not sure Allen will get one, and a lot of the buzz is hot air, so maybe both are kept. At the same time, I bet Hartenstein is considered a high value trade target by the deadline, especially if he signs for anything less than 5 million a season with the Cavs.

 

[Vipra]

Bringing trade ideas back to the discussion: will you sign-and-trade JA to Charlotte (JA has to agree) if you could use Charlotte's draft pick to get Sengun in return?
Obviously, this is considering that we have not drafted Mobley already.

 

[inliner311]

Bringing trade ideas back to the discussion: will you sign-and-trade JA to Charlotte (JA has to agree) if you could use Charlotte's draft pick to get Sengun in return?
Obviously, this is considering that we have not drafted Mobley already.

I'm not sure we could set up a sign and trade at the draft for Allen. I think it would turn out alot like the Bogdan Bogdanovic situation with the Bucks last year. It's too many working parts and basically a breach of the CPA at every step.

It would be interesting what teams would give up in a sign and trade for Allen. I do think if they did allow sign and trades at the draft, we would see them happen more often.

 

[LeQuit]

If Altman would not be able to trade Love for anything even this time I would fire him right away.Altman cant uphold his duties as the GM by signing huge contracts with average players (Love ,TT) and giving other players away for nothing(Drummond).I already foreseen Allen demanding huge contract from Cavs organization even though is nothing but paint protector ....sometimes.He’s not consistent and worth 13 mils/year at the best. Moreover,we have Osman on our shoulders whos is still considered to be “developing” which is rediculous.

 

[Ozone]

If Altman would not be able to trade Love for anything even this time I would fire him right away.Altman cant uphold his duties as the GM by signing huge contracts with average players (Love ,TT) and giving other players away for nothing(Drummond).I already foreseen Allen demanding huge contract from Cavs organization even though is nothing but paint protector ....sometimes.He’s not consistent and worth 13 mils/year at the best. Moreover,we have Osman on our shoulders whos is still considered to be “developing” which is rediculous.

Love contract imo is on Gilbert who wanted to keep him. They cannot trade him without adding value, which they should not do, as it will not help the team getting somebody else filling up the salary stack and losing good players. Love is here to stay, or bought out later this season. Overpaid for sure, but the injuries are the main reason he is untradeable now.
Drummond was acquired for peanuts, and nobody was sending back matching salary that would make any sense for the Cavs to absorb. Allen will get a nice offer sheet and the Cavs will match, but I agree he has to extend his range as a shooter to justify it. He probably will, as it looks like decent shot mechanics, but if there is any question about his commitment to the Cavs, then no. He is probably going to be seen as overpaid if its anything higher than 15 million per season without significant domination though. Cedi had a bad season trying to do a lot more than he should, and is on a team friendly salary. He could get moved for a high second which is where he was picked.
The truth is there is not much you should expect to have happened differently outside of maybe them drafting differently, but all of that has at least worked out ok and has promise.

 

[Lee]

If Altman would not be able to trade Love for anything even this time I would fire him right away.Altman cant uphold his duties as the GM by signing huge contracts with average players (Love ,TT) and giving other players away for nothing(Drummond).I already foreseen Allen demanding huge contract from Cavs organization even though is nothing but paint protector ....sometimes.He’s not consistent and worth 13 mils/year at the best. Moreover,we have Osman on our shoulders whos is still considered to be “developing” which is rediculous.

Welcome to the board, but not sure I agree with any of your takes.

Its pretty well assumed Love is on Dan, not Altman. We arent a free agent destination, so Love will just cost Dan money, and will get bought out in a year and a half.

TT wasnt a good contract, but the overpay was on Lebron and his agent holding the team a bit hostage.

Drummond we traded almost nothing for. He wore his welcome out in Detroit, then Cleveland and I doubt the Lakers want him back either. Nothing you could do with Drummond and that ridiculous contract Detroit signed him too.

And who says Osman is developing. He is what he is at this point, an average bench player being paid like a low end starter. That overpay is 100% on Altman in my opinion.

I dont love Altman, but I dont hate him either. He has done decent at drafting talent, but has a few overpays like Osman. He also hasnt constructed a roster that makes sense and I am begining to believe 2 6'1 guards cant start in the NBA together unless one of them can defend like CP3 and we have a lengthy SF who is a great defender. I am also starting to believe Okoro is best as a sg.

We will see what Altman does this summer. Can he get a good backup PG in free agency? Who will he pick? Can he retain Allen AND Hartenstein on reasonable contracts? How does he solve the Sexton problem? Extend him early but not on the max? I think Sexton thinks he is a max player, but a 6'1 SG who cant defend and isnt a good playmaker but is a very efficient scorer has a place in the NBA for sure, but it makes roster construction tough.

We will see, but its hard to grade Altman right now, this is his summer to put up or shut up.

 

[LeQuit]

I have seen enough from Altman to believe he worth something.Even his draft choices can cost us now.Sexton,Garland,Okoro.None of these guys are either athletic or good playmakers.Why he never tried to add something to move on draft lottery order?Geussing he will another meaningless pick this year too.

 

[LeQuit]

Welcome to the board, but not sure I agree with any of

Its pretty well assumed Love is on Dan, not Altman. We arent a free agent destination, so Love will just cost Dan money, and will get bought out in a year and a half.

Welcome to the board, but not sure I agree with any of your takes.

Its pretty well assumed Love is on Dan, not Altman. We arent a free agent destination, so Love will just cost Dan money, and will get bought out in a year and a half.

TT wasnt a good contract, but the overpay was on Lebron and his agent holding the team a bit hostage.

Drummond we traded almost nothing for. He wore his welcome out in Detroit, then Cleveland and I doubt the Lakers want him back either. Nothing you could do with Drummond and that ridiculous contract Detroit signed him too.

And who says Osman is developing. He is what he is at this point, an average bench player being paid like a low end starter. That overpay is 100% on Altman in my opinion.

I dont love Altman, but I dont hate him either. He has done decent at drafting talent, but has a few overpays like Osman. He also hasnt constructed a roster that makes sense and I am begining to believe 2 6'1 guards cant start in the NBA together unless one of them can defend like CP3 and we have a lengthy SF who is a great defender. I am also starting to believe Okoro is best as a sg.

We will see what Altman does this summer. Can he get a good backup PG in free agency? Who will he pick? Can he retain Allen AND Hartenstein on reasonable contracts? How does he solve the Sexton problem? Extend him early but not on the max? I think Sexton thinks he is a max player, but a 6'1 SG who cant defend and isnt a good playmaker but is a very efficient scorer has a place in the NBA for sure, but it makes roster construction tough.

We will see, but its hard to grade Altman right now, this is his summer to put up or shut up.

What makes you feel Love is on Gilbert?I read somewhere that Altman AGAIN sees Love as a veteran piece for young Cavaliers which makes going nuts.Seems like Altman is the one GM that doesnt know what to with 20 mil piece of glass on his roster for 4 consecutive years so far.Moreover,he is trying to convince everyone else that he needs Love to be a daddy for our young bulls and thats why he cant let him go.