Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[CavsKermit]

I agree Sexton has not seemed as interested in defense in the second half of the season after the injuries, I disagree he wasn't trying before that and starting to be more aware of what was happening before it took place.
If you hate Sexton so much you are going to be an angry fan , because they pretty much just confirmed he getting paid soon and aint going anywhere.

I hate losing. I dislike fans excusing, or disappearing, player behavior that results in losing.

 

[Ozone]

I hate losing. I dislike fans excusing, or disappearing, player behavior that results in losing.

I hate losing too when I am the one playing and have control over the outcome. Unfortunately Sexton cannot control what his team does around him anymore than you can from your couch, he needs to step up as a defender it is his biggest issue not an unknown problem or one that anyone should be excusing but on a team that jeeps adding defenders and no much else I think they are more interested in Sexton getting as good as he can offensively more than anything

 

[weepinwillow]

Agree 100%

The packages being suggested for Simmons would set the Cavs back 5-10 years. Trading for him and giving up Sexton plus a bunch of future firsts could be the move that kills the franchise in Cleveland.

The most I would give up would be Okoro and a future protected 1st in 2023 or 2024. Doubt that would be enough to get a deal done which is even better.

Okoro will end up better than Sexton over the course of their careers and he will never average more than 19 PPG doing it.
Anyway, if they are going to deal someone for Ben Simmons (which I now think has an under 10% chance of actually happening) It might make sense for it to be Garland of the SexLand duo, as you would need the G spots off the ball, finishing, and closing out quarters/games, which would be more in Sexton's wheelhouse than Garlands'. A Garland/Rubio/Cedi/'22 1st for Simmons/Maxey works on paper. I don't think Klutch lets it happen because they don't want Garland or Simmons to play for Morey and the 76ers. I also think the 76ers don't do it while they wait out the trade market. I do think the Cavs do it because the front office can't wait much longer on player development and regardless of playoff bed-shitting, Ben Simmons absolutely helps you win regular season games.
Subtract either for Simmons and the defense leap frogs from bottom of the NBA to top or near top of the NBA (12 or higher) and a likely playoff series, maybe even 2 series.
Doesn't matter, it's not happening. Altman has probably already put that offer out there (or maybe the same offer but with Collin instead of Garland).

 

[Ozone]

Okoro will end up better than Sexton over the course of their careers and he will never average more than 19 PPG doing it.
Anyway, if they are going to deal someone for Ben Simmons (which I now think has an under 10% chance of actually happening) It might make sense for it to be Garland of the SexLand duo, as you would need the G spots off the ball, finishing, and closing out quarters/games, which would be more in Sexton's wheelhouse than Garlands'. A Garland/Rubio/Cedi/'22 1st for Simmons/Maxey works on paper. I don't think Klutch lets it happen because they don't want Garland or Simmons to play for Morey and the 76ers. I also think the 76ers don't do it while they wait out the trade market. I do think the Cavs do it because the front office can't wait much longer on player development and regardless of playoff bed-shitting, Ben Simmons absolutely helps you win regular season games.
Subtract either for Simmons and the defense leap frogs from bottom of the NBA to top or near top of the NBA (12 or higher) and a likely playoff series, maybe even 2 series.
Doesn't matter, it's not happening. Altman has probably already put that offer out there (or maybe the same offer but with Collin instead of Garland).

the GM is committed to signing Sexton long term and made no mention of any commitment to anyone else in that vein. Okoro has a long long way to go to be better than Sexton offensively, I don't think too many people would argue that but I dont think Garland is getting moved for Simmons either now

 

[CavsKermit]

Okoro will end up better than Sexton over the course of their careers and he will never average more than 19 PPG doing it.
Anyway, if they are going to deal someone for Ben Simmons (which I now think has an under 10% chance of actually happening) It might make sense for it to be Garland of the SexLand duo, as you would need the G spots off the ball, finishing, and closing out quarters/games, which would be more in Sexton's wheelhouse than Garlands'. A Garland/Rubio/Cedi/'22 1st for Simmons/Maxey works on paper. I don't think Klutch lets it happen because they don't want Garland or Simmons to play for Morey and the 76ers. I also think the 76ers don't do it while they wait out the trade market. I do think the Cavs do it because the front office can't wait much longer on player development and regardless of playoff bed-shitting, Ben Simmons absolutely helps you win regular season games.
Subtract either for Simmons and the defense leap frogs from bottom of the NBA to top or near top of the NBA (12 or higher) and a likely playoff series, maybe even 2 series.
Doesn't matter, it's not happening. Altman has probably already put that offer out there (or maybe the same offer but with Collin instead of Garland).

I don't know that Okoro will end up better than Sexton. He's a ways behind offensively and he's a bit undersized for a SF. I think there's a zero percent change that the Sixers will accept Okoro as the headliner in a Simmons trade though. OKC extended SGA and the Nuggets extended MPJ which basically makes them untradeable this season. My read on Altman's pronouncement was him telling Morey another train could be leaving the station if you try to play this out for too long. Altman has some leverage over CAA right now because if Sexton's traded, they have to start negotiations over with Philly and Philly may not be interested in extending him so long as there's the possibility that Beal or Dame could ask out mid season.

 

[Aeterna]

Okoro will end up better than Sexton over the course of their careers and he will never average more than 19 PPG doing it.
Anyway, if they are going to deal someone for Ben Simmons (which I now think has an under 10% chance of actually happening) It might make sense for it to be Garland of the SexLand duo, as you would need the G spots off the ball, finishing, and closing out quarters/games, which would be more in Sexton's wheelhouse than Garlands'. A Garland/Rubio/Cedi/'22 1st for Simmons/Maxey works on paper. I don't think Klutch lets it happen because they don't want Garland or Simmons to play for Morey and the 76ers. I also think the 76ers don't do it while they wait out the trade market. I do think the Cavs do it because the front office can't wait much longer on player development and regardless of playoff bed-shitting, Ben Simmons absolutely helps you win regular season games.
Subtract either for Simmons and the defense leap frogs from bottom of the NBA to top or near top of the NBA (12 or higher) and a likely playoff series, maybe even 2 series.
Doesn't matter, it's not happening. Altman has probably already put that offer out there (or maybe the same offer but with Collin instead of Garland).

I like Okoro as much as the next guy but I'm not sure what you saw last year and in Summer League where you can definitely say that he will have a better career.

While Sexton has a lot to improve on (Defense, Court vision), I feel Okoro has a lot more to improve on (Midrange, 3 Pointer, Off hand).

 

[Cavatt]

This is pure fiction. In three seasons, he's not even a little bit better on that side of the court. We were the worst defensive 3 point% team in the NBA and he wouldn't even go over the top of screens.

He says he has been working on it. He knows his defense has kept him from getting a max contract automatically.

It's not true he hasn't made any improvements, but no doubt he still needs to be better.

 

[weepinwillow]

I don't know that Okoro will end up better than Sexton. He's a ways behind offensively and he's a bit undersized for a SF. I think there's a zero percent change that the Sixers will accept Okoro as the headliner in a Simmons trade though. OKC extended SGA and the Nuggets extended MPJ which basically makes them untradeable this season. My read on Altman's pronouncement was him telling Morey another train could be leaving the station if you try to play this out for too long. Altman has some leverage over CAA right now because if Sexton's traded, they have to start negotiations over with Philly and Philly may not be interested in extending him so long as there's the possibility that Beal or Dame could ask out mid season.

I'm bullish on Okoro. I think he ends up like Jaylen Brown or near Jimmy Butler level guard/forward. Both of those guys looked rough offensively their first season or two, but you saw the good hoops IQ, strong work ethic and flashes offensively while the defense was already very good and the motor was relentless.
Good assessment on the Sexton/Altman/76ers dynamic. I'm ready to call it a day on Ben Simmons rumors. I just don't see it happening with Cleveland.
See what we have with this group, if you can find a piece that is a high level fit at the F spot for Collin or Garland, pick your horse and go. Hope we stay healthy, get solid improvement from the young guys and start learning how to win.

 

[cavsfever]

I agree Sexton has not seemed as interested in defense in the second half of the season after the injuries, I disagree he wasn't trying before that and starting to be more aware of what was happening before it took place.
If you hate Sexton so much you are going to be an angry fan , because they pretty much just confirmed he getting paid soon and aint going anywhere.

I just don't understand how we manage defensively if we build around Sexland, plus Okoro while he's a good defender is also undersized. Two 7-footers in the frontcourt doesn't solve all these problems -- although Mobley does have the size and talent to elevate a team defense.

 

[CavsKermit]

I just don't understand how we manage defensively if we build around Sexland, plus Okoro while he's a good defender is also undersized. Two 7-footers in the frontcourt doesn't solve all these problems -- although Mobley does have the size and talent to elevate a team defense.

Extending Sexton means he won't be traded this season, not that he'll never be traded. But it is really important to get the number right for that reason.

 

[avs2000]

I'm bullish on Okoro. I think he ends up like Jaylen Brown or near Jimmy Butler level guard/forward. Both of those guys looked rough offensively their first season or two, but you saw the good hoops IQ, strong work ethic and flashes offensively while the defense was already very good and the motor was relentless.
Good assessment on the Sexton/Altman/76ers dynamic. I'm ready to call it a day on Ben Simmons rumors. I just don't see it happening with Cleveland.
See what we have with this group, if you can find a piece that is a high level fit at the F spot for Collin or Garland, pick your horse and go. Hope we stay healthy, get solid improvement from the young guys and start learning how to win.

That’s too bad. In Simmons we would have a overpaid head case who is afraid to shoot. Errr. Actually can’t shoot.

 

[weepinwillow]

That’s too bad. In Simmons we would have a overpaid head case who is afraid to shoot. Errr. Actually can’t shoot.

Pithy comments asides, if he was on the Cavs, he'd be their best player until Mobley blossomed (and maybe even after that).
The next Cavalier to make an All-NBA first team defense, or all NBA 3rd team or any variation there of would be the first since LeBron left. So a guy who can't shoot, won't shoot, is scared to shoot is so good at everything else, he manages ALL NBA 3rd TEAM while his team wins games and makes the playoffs. (two pretty elusive achievements for the Cavs sans LeBron).
It doesn't matter, it's not happening, but the hot-takes on boiling down Ben Simmons to only his flaws doesn't square with what he'd actually do for the team if we were able to acquire him. Which is get the Cavs into their first playoff appearance since 2018 and first non-LeBron playoff appearance since 1998.

 

[cavsfever]

Extending Sexton means he won't be traded this season, not that he'll never be traded. But it is really important to get the number right for that reason.

That makes sense. We're not really going anywhere this season so we may as well try to re-sign Sexton at a tradeable number and see if we can fit him in defensively.

 

[Ozone]

Pithy comments asides, if he was on the Cavs, he'd be their best player until Mobley blossomed (and maybe even after that).
The next Cavalier to make an All-NBA first team defense, or all NBA 3rd team or any variation there of would be the first since LeBron left. So a guy who can't shoot, won't shoot, is scared to shoot is so good at everything else, he manages ALL NBA 3rd TEAM while his team wins games and makes the playoffs. (two pretty elusive achievements for the Cavs sans LeBron).
It doesn't matter, it's not happening, but the hot-takes on boiling down Ben Simmons to only his flaws doesn't square with what he'd actually do for the team if we were able to acquire him. Which is get the Cavs into their first playoff appearance since 2018 and first non-LeBron playoff appearance since 1998.

not a chance, I bet Simmons never makes another all star game in his career if he doesn't learn to shoot free throws to the point where he wont get hacked so much that coach has to pull in him all the time. He is just not that good has always been overrated by the media and if he would be the Cavs best player(he wouldn't) then every other player should be disavowed immediately

 

[Ozone]

That makes sense. We're not really going anywhere this season so we may as well try to re-sign Sexton at a tradeable number and see if we can fit him in defensively.

same thing goes for any player under contract in the NBA not exclusive to players said posters hope are getting traded even though they are not lol smh lol