Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[dark2332]

Altman made a mistake by not trading him prior to the draft. I don’t think he will be back next year, and might not want to because he will be coming off the bench.

To say this, you would need to know what offers we had for him before the draft.

If they were quite weak, you take him to the season as he’ll likely help you more than what the trade package is worth. Maybe he increases his value pre-deadline.

I imagine the intent was to trade him before the deadline, but the injury ruined our plans.

 

[foucault87]

I figured it would be better to continue this discussion here instead of the Garland thread...

What role do people think Sexton will have next year? With the emergence of Okoro this season and Sexton's injury, I think the most likely option will be for us to sign him to a shorter deal (3/80 or something) and then build our 2nd unit around him, similar to how Kyrie used to anchor those lineups when Bron sat.

 

[CavsKermit]

I figured it would be better to continue this discussion here instead of the Garland thread...

What role do people think Sexton will have next year? With the emergence of Okoro this season and Sexton's injury, I think the most likely option will be for us to sign him to a shorter deal (3/80 or something) and then build our 2nd unit around him, similar to how Kyrie used to anchor those lineups when Bron sat.

Is Kobe Altman Oprah now? Why would we possibly pay Sexton more than $25M per?

 

[ryanf]

Yeah, because a team only needs two good scorers, max, to get through a season and playoff run.

i wonder then how championship teams are almost always composed of big threes (lbj, kyrie, love; lbj, wade, bosh; steph, klay, draymond; kawhi, lowry, van vleet; giannis, middleton, holiday).

and... even the player considered the least of the big three (love, bosh, draymond, van vleet; holiday) averaging double digits in scoring.

 

[foucault87]

Is Kobe Altman Oprah now? Why would we possibly pay Sexton more than $25M per?

Thats why its a shorter deal. Probably similar to KLove or Cedi's where it is front loaded. As it is, 25m is about the going rate for a player of Sexton's caliber.

 

[buzzdog]

i wonder then how championship teams are almost always composed of big threes (lbj, kyrie, love; lbj, wade, bosh; steph, klay, draymond; kawhi, lowry, van vleet; giannis, middleton, holiday).

and... even the player considered the least of the big three (love, bosh, draymond, van vleet; holiday) averaging double digits in scoring.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[ryanf]

I was being sarcastic.

ha! got me there!

 

[chuck0609]

Thats why its a shorter deal. Probably similar to KLove or Cedi's where it is front loaded. As it is, 25m is about the going rate for a player of Sexton's caliber.

You’re not paying 25M a year for an undersized ball dominant SG who plays mediocre defense at best.
I love Sext, and think he’s a tireless worker who will get everything out of his talent. But he’s not a 25M per year guy on this team. That has now been established. And he’s coming off a knee injury that cost him a season.
The market will set his price, and Koby will be patient.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

i wonder then how championship teams are almost always composed of big threes (lbj, kyrie, love; lbj, wade, bosh; steph, klay, draymond; kawhi, lowry, van vleet; giannis, middleton, holiday).

and... even the player considered the least of the big three (love, bosh, draymond, van vleet; holiday) averaging double digits in scoring.

Of the last six teams to appear in the Finals, four had only two guys score 15ppg or more, and the other two had only three.

In the 2016 playoffs, the only two Cavs who averaged 15 ppg were LBJ and Kyrie.

 

[cavsfever]

There was a time last year on here where we scoffed at the idea of trading Sexton for Tyler Herro. Now we would do that trade in a heart beat. I say that to put in perspective of how high his value once was.

I don’t think there was ever any point the Heat would have made that trade

 

[CavsKermit]

Thats why its a shorter deal. Probably similar to KLove or Cedi's where it is front loaded. As it is, 25m is about the going rate for a player of Sexton's caliber.

It's probably close to twice the size of any offer Sexton gets from another team this summer. I really don't understand the rationale of Cavs offer Sexton $20M per, Sexton turns them down, Sexton gets hurt, teams plays a lot better without him, so the Cavs increase their offer to $25M per. That just seems completely untethered from reality on a number of levels.

 

[Cavatt]

You’re not paying 25M a year for an undersized ball dominant SG who plays mediocre defense at best.
I love Sext, and think he’s a tireless worker who will get everything out of his talent. But he’s not a 25M per year guy on this team. That has now been established. And he’s coming off a knee injury that cost him a season.
The market will set his price, and Koby will be patient.

Who knows if the reports are true, but apparently his reps were open to taking ~20 and it was the length of the contract that they didn't like. You have to figure they won't up their price lol

 

[chuck0609]

It's probably close to twice the size of any offer Sexton gets from another team this summer. I really don't understand the rationale of Cavs offer Sexton $20M per, Sexton turns them down, Sexton gets hurt, teams plays a lot better without him, so the Cavs increase their offer to $25M per. That just seems completely untethered from reality on a number of levels.

The only part of this that I don’t like is the notion they play a lot better without him. We didn’t have enough of a sample to see how they would look with him. At the time, he and DG we’re figuring it out on the court, and when and how they would defer to each other.
We don’t have to paint Sext as a bad guy. It can work with him- he’s a team guy and tireless worker. There’s really no evidence to the contrary. He was deferring as his efficiency was up and shots were down. He’s just not a 20-25M dollar guy. And that’s ok.

 

[avs2000]

You’re not paying 25M a year for an undersized ball dominant SG who plays mediocre defense at best.
I love Sext, and think he’s a tireless worker who will get everything out of his talent. But he’s not a 25M per year guy on this team. That has now been established. And he’s coming off a knee injury that cost him a season.
The market will set his price, and Koby will be patient.

I do think sexton is in a bind. No team is going to offer him close to 25 mil coming off a knee injury especially when your greatest strenght is speed. Cavs can match any offer which I think will be about 18 mil
Sexton would be crazy to play out the last year of the contract then go UFA. He need to make sure he puts 80 mil in the bank

 

[CavsKermit]

The only part of this that I don’t like is the notion they play a lot better without him. We didn’t have enough of a sample to see how they would look with him. At the time, he and DG we’re figuring it out on the court, and when and how they would defer to each other.
We don’t have to paint Sext as a bad guy. It can work with him- he’s a team guy and tireless worker. There’s really no evidence to the contrary. He was deferring as his efficiency was up and shots were down. He’s just not a 20-25M dollar guy. And that’s ok.

The sample size argument is fair, but the market isn't going to just disregard the fact that the Cavs have played better without him, other teams are going to price that into their offers. The only thing I don't want the Cavs to do is bid against themselves here. We do a pretty bad job of guessing what other teams would be willing to pay our players. The Knicks thought they signed Randle, Fournier, and Rose to team-friendly deals last summer but that's not how the rest of the teams in the NBA presently view those contract.

If there's a healthy market for Sexton this summer at $18M per or below, his agent is going to try to structure a S&T so the Cavs don't match. If his agent is only talking to the Cavs, that's because his market sucks and the offers are underwhelming.