JR Smith

[MirORich]

You all thought Dion was a chucker...just wait.

JR SMith career FGA per 36 minutes: 15.5
Dion Waiters career FGA per 36 minutes: 16.8

JR Smith career 3P FG %: .370
Dion Waiters career 3P FG%: .328

JR Smith career corner 3P FG: .397
Dion Waiters career corner 3P FG: 344

So we've replaced Dion 6th man role with a player who shoots better from three them Dion and doesn't need to handle the ball as much, which we do not need on a team with LeBron and Kyrie

And then on top of that we add a 2 way player to start at SG and a 1st round draft pick.

 

[Sebastian]

im not saying he's going to be a world beater but

he's taller than dion
he's a better outside shooter than dion
he doesnt hate kyrie irving
he's actually been 6th man of the year

You are correct, sir.

 

[gourimoko]

People aren't pinning their hopes on those two.

They are suggesting that those two fit better and provide more depth and better fit around a healthy LeBron James, Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving.

Not to mention the additional 1st round pick we gained for a subsequent trade.

On this very page Shumpert is being compared to Jimmy Butler.

Guys are talking about watching highlight videos and getting pumped. Pumped for what???

I don't think a lot of folks on here watch other teams besides the Cavs. And that's fair enough, but to those that don't have the time, let me assure you, Shumpert is no Jimmy Butler, budget version or not; and JR Smith is a fucking tool.

 

[Pioneer10]

Just wanted to throw it out there that this offseason we can pair Haywood's contract with JR's expiring to equal $16,922,250.

I think this gets us into Hibbert and sign and trade with Marc Gasol territory. Hibbert would only have 1 year left on his contract but I believe Haywood's is non-guaranteed so it would save them that 10 million. Memphis would seem less likely as I'm not sure that Memphis would want to pay for Smith for just picks.

 

[MirORich]

MirORich, I gotta say... I don't think anyone would've said yesterday that JR Smith would be a positive influence on a playoff team.

I just.. don't know how you'd have come to that conclusion?

I said postive impact....as in positive impact on the floor. I would never assosciate the word positive influence with JR. JR would have been worse than Bynum on last years Cavs team. I think this situation is far different than last years Cavs team as at this point most of the key guys are vets.

And again, I'm not evaluating the trade in it's totality here, nor am I being critical of you.

Rather, I'm being critical of JR Smith -- who deserves tremendous criticism -- he is not an unknown as you yourself have said.

I'm also being critical of David Griffin who is really demonstrating that he has little to no patience to develop a winner the right way.

I think the organization had come to the conclusion that Dion was not part of developing the right way for the long term. So they replaced him in the long term with Shumpert along with the pick and for the short term added depth and shooting in Smith

We keep blowing our wad on these short-term trades; all of which are pretty big gambles.

And when they don't pan out, then we say "don't bitch about it, it's over and done with." Look at how much shit folks get for bringing up Wiggins or Drummond or JV...

Cavs front office is not inspiring me with confidence.

I'm curious what larger haul you think is out there for Dion Waiters and a 2019 second rd pick

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

People who are thinking JR Smith has upside are only fooling yourself. He has been in the NBA 11 years, he isn't going to change his stripes.

Not a bad thing for us, either. What we need is a guy who can catch fire and win us a game or two from the bench. Take the good with the bad. When he was focused on winning in New York, he wasn't as bad a chucker, and not nearly as bad as Waiters although he does like his braindead shots at times. But that mostly comes from his insane shooting range.

JR will do as advertised. Personally, I think every good team needs a guy who isn't afraid to put up shots off the bench. Hell, the Spurs have had the ultimate guy in Manu for years. JR is more likely to put up a ton of points than Dion is off the bench this year and probably next year too.

 

[MirORich]

On this very page Shumpert is being compared to Jimmy Butler.

Guys are talking about watching highlight videos and getting pumped. Pumped for what???

I don't think a lot of folks on here watch other teams besides the Cavs. And that's fair enough, but to those that don't have the time, let me assure you, Shumpert is no poor man's Butler and JR Smith is a fucking tool.

Great. People comparing Shumpert to Jimmy Butler are misguided. No argument there.

JR can be/is a tool. No argument there either. He can also play well on playoff teams as he has in the past and him being a tool is not why Denver or the 2012 Knicks did not go farther.

But more importantly to me, I believe Shumpert and Smith can do more for this Cavs team than Dion Waiters can. And the OKC pick is going to help add another player to that equation.

 

[Birdy89]

sign and trade with Marc Gasol territory

On what planet? He couldn't outright sign here, and we have nothing to offer them talent wise that would get them to want to trade him.

Besides, I think with the CBA there are rules about teams over the cap doing sign and trades like that anyway.

 

[Dylan Windler's Mom]

Hopefully this trade echos back to 2010 where the Knicks gave up Crawford, David Lee and Zach Randolph for trash simply to clear cap. Those three players are now playing big roles on Championship contending teams, Can Jr Smith be our Jamal Crawford?

 

[gourimoko]

I said postive impact....as in positice impact on the floor. I would never assosciate the word positive influence with JR. JR would have been worse than Bynum on last years Cavs team. I think this situation is far different than last years Cavs team as at this point most of the key guys are vets.



I think the organization had come to the conclusion that Dion was not part of developing the right way for the long term. So they replaced him in the long term with Shumpert along with the pick and for the short term added depth and shooting in Smith



I'm curious what larger haul you think is out there for Dion Waiters and a 2019 second rd pick

To be honest, the front office should have realized this before the season started and traded Waiters when his value was high; i.e., like when we are angling him for Kevin Love and he was coming of a 15.9ppg season.

Instead, we traded him at his lowest value point in his career - for peanuts. We lost value, no matter how you look at it.

Bro, I don't want to rain on the parade; but it's getting old around here when, after every single trade, good or bad, we hop on the bandwagon.

Waiters had value, and his value could have increased by the offseason.

The totality of Dion Waiters' career from the draft to his last day here is a failure of the Cavaliers management and coaching staff.

The guy we never should've drafted, that we never truly integrated, that got no offseason training within the coaching system (worked out on his own), and was constantly forced into roles that didn't suit him.

"Dion I need a spot up shooter." -- "Okay, wtf you telling me for? Isn't that why you guys signed Mike Miller and James Jones? GTFOH."

 

[gourimoko]

Great. People comparing Shumpert to Jimmy Butler are misguided. No argument there.

JR can be/is a tool. No argument there either. He can also play well on playoff teams as he has in the past and him being a tool is not why Denver or the 2012 Knicks did not go farther.

But more importantly to me, I believe Shumpert and Smith can do more for this Cavs team than Dion Waiters can. And the OKC pick is going to help add another player to that equation.

We're not in disagreement on any of these points.

My problem is that we traded away a player at the point of lowest possible value. Even if we improved, the point is that we sold low and we could likely have netted a greater return if we had either traded him earlier or later than in the midst of a poor run with two injured star players.

 

[Zen]

Lloyd's final thoughts really shit on JR Smith. I'm not thrilled about adding him honestly, but for a pick and shumpert its an evil that maybe had to be entertained. Have to bank he keeps his shit together with Lebron leading the way.

 

[MirORich]

To be honest, the front office should have realized this before the season started and traded Waiters when his value was high; i.e., like when we are angling him for Kevin Love and he was coming of a 15.9ppg season.

Instead, we traded him at his lowest value point in his career - for peanuts. We lost value, no matter how you look at it.

Bro, I don't want to rain on the parade; but it's getting old around here when, after every single trade, good or bad, we hop on the bandwagon.

Waiters had value, and his value could have increased by the offseason.

The totality of Dion Waiters' career from the draft to his last day here is a failure of the Cavaliers management and coaching staff.

The guy we never should've drafted, that we never truly integrated, that got no offseason training within the coaching system (worked out on his own), and was constantly forced into roles that didn't suit him.

"Dion I need a spot up shooter." -- "Okay, wtf you telling me for? Isn't that why you guys signed Mike Miller and James Jones? GTFOH."

I'm not sure if you're inferring in your first paragraph that at some point Minnesota would have ever taken a Dion and Bennet package for Love but if you are, I just don't agree. If you're not, I apologize for the assumption.

As far as Dion's trade value, considering how long its been known we would move him, I just don't think his trade value was much higher over the summer than it was right now. And I also don't think we can be sure that his trade value would have ever increased much from this point forward. And this is coming from someone(me) who likes Dion Waiters. I like him as a person and as a player. I think the combo of Shumpert and Smith are better fits for us, give us a deeper roster, and that the total package we got for essentially Dion straight up was actually pretty good value.

Lastly, I'm not sure about rain and parade, but I evaluate each move on its own merit and within a larger context of the present and future and I happen to like this trade and I feel I have stated a fairly good case for as why in multiple posts so it doesn't matter to me whether or not you think I'm just hopping on the koolaid express. Nor do I expect you to care whether I agree with your opinion on it. But I respect and acknowledge that its YOUR opinion without trying to reducing it down to Contrarianism the way you're reducing my opinion down to Bandwagonism.

 

[Futuredome]

To be honest, the front office should have realized this before the season started and traded Waiters when his value was high; i.e., like when we are angling him for Kevin Love and he was coming of a 15.9ppg season.

Instead, we traded him at his lowest value point in his career - for peanuts. We lost value, no matter how you look at it.

Bro, I don't want to rain on the parade; but it's getting old around here when, after every single trade, good or bad, we hop on the bandwagon.

Waiters had value, and his value could have increased by the offseason.

The totality of Dion Waiters' career from the draft to his last day here is a failure of the Cavaliers management and coaching staff.

The guy we never should've drafted, that we never truly integrated, that got no offseason training within the coaching system (worked out on his own), and was constantly forced into roles that didn't suit him.

"Dion I need a spot up shooter." -- "Okay, wtf you telling me for? Isn't that why you guys signed Mike Miller and James Jones? GTFOH."

Well well said. I think Bryon's firing was the critical blow to Dion in the Cavs organization. After the Cavs lost out on their top choices that draft and Bryon came in calling Dion the 2nd best prospect of the draft. IMO, Dion was actually part of the team in year 1. Kyrie had some respect and they had some of their best moments together that year. IMO, Byron's abrupt firing changed things and there was a back turn to Dion. Kyrie began to ignore him and he was put to the bench in favor of lesser talent. I see Dion as "acting out" like he wanted to be loved. The wearing of Kyrie's shoes lately is another part of that. In the end, we waited to long and took a lesser deal.......for the likes of Smith.

 

[gourimoko]

Lloyd's final thoughts really shit on JR Smith. I'm not thrilled about adding him honestly, but for a pick and shumpert its an evil that maybe had to be entertained. Have to bank he keeps his shit together with Lebron leading the way.

And the DPE.. Not sure if you saw that but everyone here keeps saying it was Dion for two rotation players and a first...

It was the DPE + Dion + 2 non-guaranteed contracts.

That also means we might not get Dalembert if he doesn't clear waivers.

Look, if Griffin comes out of this by the break with decent rim protector I'll be okay.. but otherwise, I'm a bit pissed off with these moves so far.