Starting lineups - who in the 2 hole

[CDAV45]

Brennan or even Freeman could certainly make a case for the spot as the season goes on. Lot's of options, hope they make it hard for Tito to stick to his habits.

I'm still holding out hope that Tito's options outside of Brennan and Freeman become more limited.

 

[KluberSociety]

If Brennan and/or Freeman are able to demonstrate OBP ability then sure, they can hit in the 2 hole. However it is difficult to do that through contact alone, and will require a combination of power and discipline. Brennan would've been the most aggressive chaser in all of MLB in his limited sample and Freeman has yet to show any pop or walk drawing ability. Otherwise you're basically just replacing Amed with Amed. You could lump Rocchio into this too who probably projects to be a similar hitter in the future.

I like the Amed/Brennan/Freeman profile a lot more in the 3 hole personally. If guys get on then they're there to hit them in. If the top 2 guys get out then well who cares, 2 outs and nobody on is low leverage.

 

[sportscoach]

Pretty much the same way Kwan wasn't ready for the leadoff role. I mean if we're saying dumb shit I want to get my statement in there.

Straw forced Francona's hand to change the leadoff spot... If Amed is hitting could you really put someone there with no mlb experience?

 

[Criznit]

If Brennan and/or Freeman are able to demonstrate OBP ability then sure, they can hit in the 2 hole. However it is difficult to do that through contact alone, and will require a combination of power and discipline. Brennan would've been the most aggressive chaser in all of MLB in his limited sample and Freeman has yet to show any pop or walk drawing ability. Otherwise you're basically just replacing Amed with Amed. You could lump Rocchio into this too who probably projects to be a similar hitter in the future.

I like the Amed/Brennan/Freeman profile a lot more in the 3 hole personally. If guys get on then they're there to hit them in. If the top 2 guys get out then well who cares, 2 outs and nobody on is low leverage.

I actually think the Freeman can't take a walk belief is a little outdated at this point. I agree as he was coming up he rarely walked, but he also rarely struck out. In 72 AAA games in 2022, he had 25BB against 32K and he LOVES the HBP - 19 of those as well. So he actually got to 1st base 44 times in 72 games without a base hit... That's not terrible at all. Though not currently knocking him over the fence regularly, he has hit his share of XBHs and isn't a truck on the base paths. IMO - Freeman is about to breakout. All of that said, you are basically correct Freeman and Brennan will need to actually show ability before even being considered for regular placement there.

Amed (R), Gimenez (L), Brennan (L) and Freeman (R) - hopefully Andres's MVP run gets him into the 2 hole once and for all.

 

[CDAV45]

Straw forced Francona's hand to change the leadoff spot... If Amed is hitting could you really put someone there with no mlb experience?

Yeah I could without hesitation, but then again I'm the one that sees no point whatsoever in not trading Amed. Have you ever heard me mention anything about kicking the can down the road?

Edited to ask you if you are suggesting that if Straw would have hit like he did in his peak year that he would have kept Kwan out of the leadoff spot?

 

[sportscoach]

Yeah I could without hesitation, but then again I'm the one that sees no point whatsoever in not trading Amed. Have you ever heard me mention anything about kicking the can down the road?

Edited to ask you if you are suggesting that if Straw would have hit like he did in his peak year that he would have kept Kwan out of the leadoff spot?

Yes, Kwan would have never been put into the lead off spot if Straw was producing like he is capable of...

Francona tries to keep guys with little MLB experience out of the top of the lineup if he can help it. They have to prove it and with Straw struggling and Kwan hitting, he had to make a change and the rest is history.

 

[CDAV45]

Yes, Kwan would have never been put into the lead off spot if Straw was producing like he is capable of...

Francona tries to keep guys with little MLB experience out of the top of the lineup if he can help it. They have to prove it and with Straw struggling and Kwan hitting, he had to make a change and the rest is history.

Oh yeah? How did that work out for him last season? Good thing is that Tito isn't so hard headed to not realize he isn't always right. I think the showing of 17 rookies last season probably influenced him a bit. I hold Tito in high enough regard to think that he would have put Kwan in the leadoff role(where he belongs) even if Straw would have matched his best season. The Guardians were better for it just like they'll likely be better by not having Amed in the 2 hole.

Good luck with the cookie cutter approach with Tito. I think his managing style is fluid and he'll let the players determine what roles they play. If he's worth his salt that's exactly what he'll do with this team that has so much young talent.

 

[sportscoach]

Oh yeah? How did that work out for him last season? Good thing is that Tito isn't so hard headed to not realize he isn't always right. I think the showing of 17 rookies last season probably influenced him a bit. I hold Tito in high enough regard to think that he would have put Kwan in the leadoff role(where he belongs) even if Straw would have matched his best season. The Guardians were better for it just like they'll likely be better by not having Amed in the 2 hole.

Good luck with the cookie cutter approach with Tito. I think his managing style is fluid and he'll let the players determine what roles they play. If he's worth his salt that's exactly what he'll do with this team that has so much young talent.

He tries to avoid putting rookies in the fire right away if possible and if the rookie forces his way in though he let's them try. Straw burned out/crashed, so he had to do something and Kwan took off with the chance. If Straw is hitting, Francona isn't making the move...

 

[CDAV45]

He tries to avoid putting rookies in the fire right away if possible and if the rookie forces his way in though he let's them try. Straw burned out/crashed, so he had to do something and Kwan took off with the chance. If Straw is hitting, Francona isn't making the move...

Your opinion and I don't share it.

 

[CDAV45]

Aside from the Brennan/Freeman/Rosario in the 2 hole argument I find it difficult to logically reason that Gimenez's bat shouldn't appear as much as possible. He's probably the best 2 hole bat at the moment. At least against RHP anyway.

 

[sportscoach]

Your opinion and I don't share it.

You don't gotta, but is it my opinion, when he has pretty much stated that he tries to avoid putting rookies into the fire... lol

 

[nime]

Jose in the 2 spot after Kwan

Kwan LF
Jose 3rd
Gimenez 2nd
Bell 1st/DH
Naylor DH/1st
Oscar RF
Rosario SS
Zunino C
Straw/Brennen CF

 

[CDAV45]

You don't gotta, but is it my opinion, when he has pretty much stated that he tries to avoid putting rookies into the fire... lol

He played 17 rookies last year genius. How did that work out? lol

 

[sportscoach]

He played 17 rookies last year genius. How did that work out? lol

Did he have any choice? No not really lol

 

[ice cream man]

Like some have already mentioned I like the idea of Amed hitting first and Kwan second. I think leading off would force Amed to be a little more patient. I felt it did with Lindor. Amed is probably a better base stealer than Kwan, but Amed makes it harder for Kwan to steal since Amed swings at everything. Kwan is a great guy to have at the plate when you’re trying to steal a base. And Kwan can hit it through that hole between first and second that is there when a runner is on first, although Amed is pretty good at hitting that hole too. The only thing I don’t like about Amed leading off is that he’s guaranteed to get more plate appearances than anyone else. I just want to see some of our less patient guys draw more walks this year. Can totally change the course of a game.

Anyway, we know the 1-2-3 will be Kwan, Amed, Jose.